Do you find this sentence difficult to understand?

Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by waitingforzion, Mar 13, 2016.

  1. waitingforzion

    waitingforzion Banned

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    As for the second passage. This is the plain English meaning if I had to give one.

    There is a girl named Sandra who is beautiful, charming, and noble. My heart, which desires her, is warmed by her.

    But I would rather say it more musically.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
  2. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    The above phrasing is tremendously archaic. Perhaps you are conflating archaic with unintelligible. Archaic can be perfectly intelligible to someone with a modicum of learning or exposure to literature. I know what sealed means in this context now that the grammar has been made a tad more lucid. I originally thought you meant a marriage proposal that had been refused in the first version you posted, which is another meaning that the word can have, but the syntax of the original really left it in the air. I enjoy archaic word use. I love these words that rarely get their dance-cards signed. I'm the gent who will always take them for a spin across the floor. I know perfectly well what nigh means. But to say that it's not an archaic word.... That word has dropped completely from common use. It exists only in the pages of fantasy novels, period novels, that vast cemetery known as the dictionary, and the occasional SCA Renaissance Fair. It is archaic. But, regardless, I know what it means. I only point this out because if there is to be any fruitful communication in this endeavor we must at least know that we're on the same page when we call things by their names.
     
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  3. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    It's certainly more clear, but it still feels Yoda-esque. Your use of "this" as a way to sort of set up the next phrase seems unnecessarily dramatic, at least for modern English... you could more easily write "In time past I wrote you a letter declaring that your time to befriend me was nigh to ending." (And, honestly, "nigh to ending" doesn't sound archaic to you?)

    As I think has been said many times before, we probably need more context on this. There are some very successful literary characters who are noted for being overly verbose and speaking in unnecessarily convoluted ways: if you're trying to write a character/narrator like that, you may be on the right track.

    No, fair enough - and I'm usually one to argue in favour of writing quality being subjective and it just being a question of finding your audience. But I guess I feel this case is an exception!
     
  4. SethLoki

    SethLoki Retired Autodidact Contributor

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    I much prefer the flow of this revision over the previous. :) Poss a colon after 'declaring this' ? The spag folks may want to confirm the suggestion...
     
  5. waitingforzion

    waitingforzion Banned

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    Okay, but I don't want to work on that one anymore. Is there some information available on prose rhythm or cadence that I can read, something better than the manual I have. It doesn't seem to describe what makes a sequence of feet rhythmical or what creates the voice. I could try imitating other works by ear, but I don't know if this will work for me when I want to write a new piece in a similar or derivative style.

    I am quite positive that if I understood the mechanics of cadences in prose, how they create certain voices and rhythmical effects, that I could use it effectively.

    I know how to fit the words to the cadence, For instance, take Paul's epistle to the Romans.

    Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle.

    And my emulation:

    Blob, an owner of many stores, fueled by bars of granola. (Not the best example)

    I can imitate the specific rhythmic patterns, but I do not yet know how to compose new rhythmic patterns in the same or derivative voice. Whether I do this before hand or by ear during revision is beside the matter. There must be some theory that applies to this, perhaps borrowing from music or something.

    What do you think? I have had virtually no practice with this sort of things, I mean, guided practice, that is. So I cannot really tell if it is beyond my intelligence yet.
     
  6. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

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    I think you're too caught up in how you want to say things before you've decided what it is you're saying. And what's wrong with bringing your poetics up to date?
    Here's your original. Here's as a reader ( who loves Nabokov, Angela Carter, and a dozen other purple prose writers ) the problems I had with it -
    The mc pushes himself away from the action ( to the heart desiring her ) creating distance and rather than the reader feeling his desire - I've been made to look at it abstractly.

    All the words in the next sentence are pushing Sandra into an elevated status that she hasn't earned in the reader's eyes only the authors. ( that's telling. )

    The last again is leaning on generalizations rather than action - what does fairer even mean - she's pretty? it's already been stated so it's redundant. Other girls of beauty and pride. By now the mc is looking a little goofy because he's elevated a girl into goddess status without any context. Allow the context to show this.

    Here's a sample of cleaning up one thought - and still keeping it a little modern and poetic -
    Sandra warms desire in my heart and I would rather suffer the vengeance of her admirers then ever offend her.

    The key is to attach the feelings to the mc and make them genuine. Strip away some of the pomp.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
  7. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    You may want to look at the structure of poetry - iambic pentameter has already been mentioned, but there are lots of different meters poets have used.
     
  8. waitingforzion

    waitingforzion Banned

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    The problem is that I used meter (not regular meter) is my passage about Sandra, and it still came out all messed up.

    But I must be missing something important about meter and poetics. It's not enough just to know about unaccented and accented syllables and feet. You have to know how to arrange them to create a certain rhythm and voice with with variation over time.
     
  9. HelloImRex

    HelloImRex Senior Member

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    I want to hear more about this Blob character. Can you write a couple of sentences with whatever rhythm you want, but have it be about Blob and his granola bars?
     
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  10. Lorenzostales

    Lorenzostales New Member

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    It is a bit confusing, but it really depends on the context.
     
  11. waitingforzion

    waitingforzion Banned

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    My writing about Sandra here was not really an exercise in saying anything, but I wanted to make sure that the meaning it had was clear. It was more important to me that I be able to create a musical cadence, (which I have failed to do), and express something clearly in that cadence, not to create a feeling of anything personal or to sound like natural speech, nor to use it in writing a novel. So far I am only interested in writing short stories, but this was merely an exercise in voice.
     

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