1. naruzeldamaster

    naruzeldamaster Senior Member

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    Do you like long chapters or shorter chapters?

    Discussion in 'General Writing' started by naruzeldamaster, Aug 7, 2021.

    Something I've been trying to change lately is to stop aiming for that big 15 K word per chapter goal and just let the chapter be as long/short as it needs to be. I'm also trying to have each chapter have a beginning/middle/end part of it's story but that one's a bit tricky depending on what story I'm workin on.

    What about you, do you have a set word count you aim for? Or do you play it by ear and let the story decide?
     
  2. hirundine

    hirundine Contributor Contributor

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    I don't have a set word amount for chapters. Each chapter in my current WIP is an individual short story that also serves to advance a wider plot and character development. So, the length of each individual chapter is whatever it needs to be to tell that particular short story.
     
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  3. Lazaares

    Lazaares Contributor Contributor

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    The advice I tend to give here largely as a reader is to understand chapters from /my/ perspective. Especially with a hard-copy I prefer regular "breaks" of any kind that allow me to settle the book and do other things before returning to it. Quite a few books have this kind of mid-chapter-break-with-a-random-symbol-thing that I particularly enjoy;

    -~o~-
    if you have one every other page it allows for a convenient break and easy return to where you were at when you pick up the book a few hours later. I would have ZERO issue with people doing actual chapter breaks for those, even though they'd result in like, 1500 word chapters. It fulfills its purpose and makes it easier for me to read.

    In fact, most of the (rather archaic) nonfiction I am reading right now has that kind of build. Chapters (or sometimes "Books" in my favoured archaic nonfiction) are more used for the cohesion of the work as a whole and therefore can be of any length as long as it makes sense. In nonfiction, it means one topic Clausewitz or Kautilya is discussing. In fiction, it might mean a section that can stand on its own, independently, with its own narrative beat, climax and conflict.

    As a writer, my own old rule of thumb is something I picked up from roleplaying: every chapter should end with an obvious change in the status quo.

    Hope that helps.
     
  4. AntPoems

    AntPoems Contributor Contributor

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    I don't have a particular preference, but I have heard many people who aren't big readers say that they like writers like James Patterson and Dan Brown because they write short, easy-to-read chapters. Take from that what you will, but it is worth considering how the chapter length affects the pacing of your story; short chapters work well for the breath-taking pace of a thriller, for instance.

    And as @Lazaares noted, even for avid readers, it's nice to have some kind of natural break within longer chapters. I need a convenient place to stop so I can pee and make more tea or coffee before getting back to the story sometimes!
     
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  5. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    You have had a goal of 15k chapters? Most recommend to keep chapters much shorter than that, although it can vary by genre.
     
  6. Madman

    Madman Life is Sacred Contributor

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    I let my chapters range from a few hundred words to many thousands. It feels kind of natural what determines a chapter. A small story within the story is usually a chapter for me. But in the end, I am going to run my book by some professionals, and if they tell me to do things differently, I may.
     
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  7. naruzeldamaster

    naruzeldamaster Senior Member

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    Mostly because 15 K to me always felt like a lot, I don't read books (yes yes I know I should but I gotta find somethin dangit lol) so I don't know the general word count for a chapter.
    Most of my chapters usually stick around the 11-14 K range and occasionally go around to 16-18 K, but at that point I feel like it'll never 'end' haha.
    I also don't 'actively' shoot for that word count that's just generally when a chapter feels you know, done.
     
  8. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I don't care much, personally—although I do think I prefer long chapters (like I prefer long books.) But as long as the chapter does what chapters do —creates a start, middle and end, similar to the structure of a short story— I don't count pages. As far as taking a break, I'm just as apt to take a break anywhere in the story. I just use a bookmark to mark the place. I don't drive myself to read to the end of the chapter, if I want a snack, a pee, or to go to sleep.

    Actually, sometimes it's easier to pick up a story in mid-chapter, after a break, than it is to be starting a new one. Sometimes the new one contains a different POV character, or a situation that has moved on quite a bit. I often end up paging back to refresh my memory as to what the previous chapter was about.

    The one thing I'm not terribly fond of are incredibly short chapters, which I do find choppy. I mean the kind of chapters that only last a page or two. It's okay for a shortie once in a while, but I remember trying to read a book that did that throughout, and I did get annoyed. I felt as if I were hyperventilating.
     
  9. Cephus

    Cephus Contributor Contributor

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    15k per chapter is ridiculous, that's more than 50 pages per chapter. Who told you to do that? Chapter length is for utility and for reader benefit, nothing else. I know a lot of published authors who will never write a chapter longer than 2000 words. Ever. They just write a lot of chapters and give their readers a lot of places to take a break. Mine typically come in between 4-5k, just because that's how it works out. If I knew that a book had 50 page chapters, I'd put the book down. That's a lot of commitment to require from your readers in one sitting.
     
  10. naruzeldamaster

    naruzeldamaster Senior Member

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    As I said, that's something I'm trying to change, I want to make my chapters longer/shorter dependent on the subject matter rather than an actual target word count.
    One of my recent chapters was only 8 K words long. I might take time to break up chapters more but I don't see my chapters ever being lower than 5 k words except rarely.
    I tend to want at least one complete scene as a chapter, and some scenes are longer with more dialogue than others.
     
  11. Steve Rivers

    Steve Rivers Contributor Contributor

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    And the great irony is that most professional editors for the largest publishing houses and their best-selling books actively try and remove these if they can. Because the last thing they want is to give the reader an EXCUSE to put the book down.

    While it may seem like a nice convenience, one of the major psychological tricks professional editors will try and play is to engineer it so that readers have the feeling of "I couldn't put this down" because it so frequently translates into reviews.
    "This was so good, I couldn't stop reading." You will hear a lot.
    "This book made me late for work, it was so gripping."
    "A real page-turner."

    These responses aren't by chance or luck (even less so if it's a Russian bot review, hehe).
    Readers are so hardwired now to equate "I couldn't stop reading" to "I really like this" that it automatically goes to the top of their list when writing reviews, thus helping to sell the book more.

    Major publishing houses try to engineer this outcome as much as they can by identifying the psychological reasons that stop a reader reading. If there isn't enough mystery or intrigue to end the chapter in order to make the reader read on, they'll make sure the author writes some in. The opposite is true of scene breaks. The author must have a damned-good, story-driven reason why they can't simply write "Two days later" or other explanation, because a scene break signifies to the reader a potential place to stop. If a reader feels they can put the book down, they lose the "I couldn't put it down" feeling.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you should follow this callous and cynical method if you like long chapters, but understanding the psychology of what makes a book gripping and how scene breaks affect that can be an important tool in the writer's toolkit.

    As for the overall topic, short or long, it doesn't matter to me as long as it has a *reason* to it's length. If it's long and chocked full of irrelevant filler or needless worldbuilding, ill simply start skipping. You never want your reader doing that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2021
  12. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    Shorter, every time. In fact the shorter the better. I have to finish a session at the end of a chapter, and because I can only manage three at the very most (so long as they’re short) in one sitting, then the more chances I get to stop reading the better.
     
  13. Not the Territory

    Not the Territory Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    I like long chapters. 15k words seems like a good length. I don't understand the whole 'chapters as breaks' thing. I stop reading when I'm tired (sometimes passing out with book in hand). Dog-ears are for keeping place!

    Really short chapters give me a kind of whiplash, and actually make it harder to lose myself in the book.
     
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  14. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

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    Depends on the genre. I tend to like short chapters for horror, thrillers or mysteries and longer chapters for things like historical, romance, general fiction. For my own work, I like to write a mix really short chapters and really long depending on the info and how I want it chunked up in the story. To keep track of my word count in my WIP I went and made each chapter five pages long. I might lengthen a few as sometimes it's pulling the action up-short.

    I'm with Lazaares - in allowing for scene breaks with fancy do-dads like the triple - * * * rather than just ending the chapter.
     
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  15. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    I don't understand this 'requirement' to finish reading a chapter, or that chapters define how much to read before taking a 'break'. You can stop and restart at any time. Long or short chapters have never fussed me. I know where I left off.
     
  16. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    None of my chapters are THAT long, but I do have a few within the 10-11k range. They are as long as they need to be to tell (and complete) that sub-story of the novel. It's an organisational thing having to do with plot development, not a 'let's give a reader a pee break' kind of thing.

    However, I do provide lots of scene breaks within chapters, so if people want to stop frequently, they can. I've had probably about 70 beta readers to date, and none of them have complained about chapter length, per se.

    If people don't like books with long chapters, they are welcome to not read mine! Or anything else—like a Prologue—that they may not like. These are reader choices. The writer should be aiming to please their target audience, not every reader on the planet. That's a goal that will never be met.

    I remember some people, who, back in the day when books were printed, would pass up one that looked 'long.' (Michener didn't stand a chance with those folks.) The fact that it didn't take any longer to read a 'long' book' than it did two short ones didn't seem to register. But to each his own. I'm not keen on short books, as a general rule. Gimme a long book that I know will keep me glued and immersed for days, and I'm happy. :) I still buy LOTS of books!

    A long book is usually cheaper to buy anyway—word for word—than two short ones. You're just bulk-buying words. :bigwink:
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2021
  17. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    Stopping mid chapter is like walking away from a conversation mid sentence. I need the scene to ‘close’ and wrap up. Many years ago I bought Bradbury’s Fahrenheit 451. I started reading, and I read, and read, and read. Curious I decided to check how many more pages there were to the end of chapter one and discovered the book is completely chapter-less. I put it down and never picked it up again.
     
  18. Seligman

    Seligman Member

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    It makes no sense to have an absolute preference for chapter length regardless of the novel. Try to imagine Proust writing chapters of the length of Ellis' Less than Zero or Didion's Play It As It Lays. It's like saying you don't like long shots in a movie period, regardless of what the movie is trying to do.
     
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  19. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    No, because unlike a conversation, it doesn't go away. You can go back and continue, or even re-read the sentence, any time you like. It's not like a conversation at all. I've never once 'checked how many pages' there were to the end of a chapter. I just stop reading and then get back to it later. I find it, enlightening, that such reading behaviour exists. And fascinating, because to me it makes no sense.
     
  20. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    How can it not make sense to have a preference? I can’t justify why I need to finish reading at the end of a chapter, but more importantly I shouldn’t have to justify it.
     
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  21. Seligman

    Seligman Member

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    Fine don't explain then. It's not like I care.
     
  22. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I sometimes use one of the little sticky-back paper book marks to show me exactly where I left off, to the exact word, because it can get annoying using a regular bookmark and then you don't remember where on the page you left off. I'll use a regular bookmark to locate the page and then place the paper tab after the last word I read. Because I hate that thing where you can't remember where you left off so you start again at the top of the left-hand page, and a few paragraphs down you're like 'Wait, I already read this... '
     
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  23. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    I would have burnt it.

    To some, reading a book with no chapters is like reading an email or facebook post with no paragraphs.

    Yes, I know people who will write 500+ word posts with no paragraphs and expect people to read it. I seldom write anything that long because almost everyone on social media has no patience, but if I do, I break it up.
     
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  24. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I make it a practice to check just before posting something and see if it needs to be broken up as a courtesy to readers. I also double-check after posting, in case I forgot.
     

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