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  1. Hublocker

    Hublocker Active Member

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    Do you plot everything or let it flow?

    Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by Hublocker, Apr 9, 2018.

    I'm struggling into launching my next effort at a novel working from a simple theme but except for a main character and setting I don't really have any action planned yet.

    In my previous manuscript which I am currently pitching, I wrote a chapter about a group of people on a boat in a very isolated location who get burned off the boat in the middle of the night by a saboteur.

    That scene occurred about 7/8 of the way through the book.

    Then I went to the beginning and wrote the book setting up the attack and two chapters following it to conclude the story.

    Why am I telling you this?

    To ask how you plot.

    Do you plan it out chapter by chapter ahead of time or let it grow organically from a few basic components like your characters and a conflict you have in mind?
     
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  2. Ksenia Tomasheva

    Ksenia Tomasheva Member

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    I always start with the idea of how it all will end.
    Then do a milestone plan - like 2-5 major plot points listed.
    Then just write from the very beginning of the story, as it flows (but I'm the "chapter one to chapter done" kind of person. When I write, I pretend to tell the story to myself), but doing my best to create as many mysteries as I can within the plot. This lasts up until approx. 1/3 of the book.
    Then I stop, give it a thought, and figure out what mysteries I've thrown into the story. Starting from that point, it's planning. Not even real planning, but more like a shopping list: I have all my mysteries, puzzles, loose ends, and possible side stories listed on a paper, and just cross them out one by one when I feel it's written in.
    The next stop is close to the book's end, maybe, when 3/4 of the book is done. From this point, I turn to be a heavy planner. I structure the remaining story, make a chapter plan, to make sure book ends with all the answers given, and the ending is not low-paced. Even more: sometimes I write a plan for every single chapter.
     
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  3. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I pants fiction but plot non fiction - which is why i write the former in OO but the latter in scriv
     
  4. Cephus

    Cephus Contributor Contributor

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    I plot everything meticulously. I know where the story is going and I know exactly how I'm going to get there.
     
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  5. Shenanigator

    Shenanigator Has the Vocabulary of a Well-Educated Sailor. Contributor

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    Organically. Everything starts with one or two main characters, then life happens & presents lots of conflict.

    ETA: For my non-fiction my working method depends on what the project is.
     
  6. awkwarddragon

    awkwarddragon Member

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    I've mentioned this in another thread, but when it comes writing, structure is integral for me. Thus, when I plot, I structure every detail. Occasionally, I'll write outside the plot structure if I come upon something unexpected, but I nonetheless mark every plot point down.
     
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  7. John Grant

    John Grant Member

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    The plot sort of congeals in my mind and when it is almost fully formed, I write it down. Dialogue comes as I lay out the story. That's how I prefer to write, but I know that's not what is recommended. There's a whole process that involves sticky notes and a timeline, but that just sounds too much like work. I write for the enjoyment of it, and basically I just write for me. Fortunately what I write appeals to others as well.
     
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  8. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    Most of the time I have nothing in mind. It can be a little terrifying to say, "Okay, I'm going to sit down and write for a few hours" when you have no idea where you are taking your story or even what your story is. But I never just sit there looking at a blank screen. I always write. I let my fingers go nuts on the keyboard and I go with my gut and/or first instinct. I have found that the more planning I do the less likely I am to finish whatever I'm working on. And if I try to plan things out ahead of time, that's when I get stuck. When I'm writing I just go with it.
     
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  9. John-Wayne

    John-Wayne Madman Extradinor Contributor

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    Both! I have a somewhat of an outline and then I let it flow from there. So, I do both.
     
  10. GlitterRain7

    GlitterRain7 Galaxy Girl Contributor

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    I say I let it grow organically. My outline is pretty basic. I know the main points for each chapter, but everything under that is unknown until I write it.
     
  11. Gawler

    Gawler Senior Member

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    I work out the start and the end first. After that I work on a few events in the story and then basically join the dots.

    I feel the best stories take you on a journey, getting from the start to the end is part of the fun of writing. The characters can develop as they go and overcome obstacles they have never encountered before.
     
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  12. ThunderAngel

    ThunderAngel Contributor Contributor

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    I write out the plot and the scenes first and then intuit my way within that framework.
     
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  13. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    False dichotomy. I plot out a story and then let it flow.
     
  14. xanadu

    xanadu Contributor Contributor

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    I can't work without some idea of what's coming, but it rarely has to be anything definitive. I need to know how I'm going to start before I start (whether I stick with that opening or change it later doesn't matter at first). I usually have an idea of the ending, however vague. I also tend to have ideas for some key scenes that will be incorporated at unknown points throughout the story.

    Then I think about the chapter I'm writing. What couple of things are going to happen in it? That can be (and usually is) pretty vague. For example, the most recent chapter of my WIP came to me as something like this:

    1. MC and one of the more important side characters go out to the bar and discuss their impressions of what's going on (this was one of those scenes I knew ahead of time)
    2. Some disturbance happens at the bar
    3. They decide to pursue the disturbance and gain some story-relevant information
    4. They get chewed out by their superiors for being reckless

    That's as detailed as it gets. From there, I proceed to write 5-6k words that may or may not incorporate all that, depending on how it winds up flowing. At some point during the writing of this chapter, the fuzzy details of the next chapter start forming. And on it goes.
     
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  15. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I generally plot/envisage in my head a few chapters in advance and write down the outline in short form but its not plotting in the standard form
     
  16. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    Yeah. I write a short outline and then almost always write something else, but I need the target to aim for.
     
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  17. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    You might be making things harder for yourself by creating a character and setting before the plot. And, in my opinion, themes don't matter all that much and attempts at them often miss the mark. The first thing you want to think of (and this doesn't matter if you plot or pants) is "What if..." I think that's the best way to go into the story. It's what I do, and let it build from there. Once you start asking those what if questions, your plot will come quickly. I think you've got to be willing to adapt your characters and settings to fit the actual story (plot), and not the other way around. I always stay start with plot and character together. Introduce both in line one. Let this be your character's story more than your story (or let it feel that way). I would struggle if I had a character and setting without a plot. It just seems like a much more difficult puzzle to solve if you are determined to make those pieces fit together without looking at the big picture.

    I wrote a short story not that long ago. I had a loose idea of what it would be about, but hadn't planned any of the story. What I did spend too much time doing was trying to make this idea I had for a character fit. I thought it was such a unique idea for a character. I tried to write him in. I tried to make it work. The story wasn't so bad, but this character seemed out of place in the story. It threw everything off. But the character was interesting, I thought. I'm being so original with him, I thought. However, I know this story won't sell the way it is, I thought. So, I had to go through my piece and really ask myself what was working and what wasn't. What I had thought made this character so unique and different, had to go. I had to let my character become the right character for the story. The only characteristic that stayed was the name. But now I like my story, and I like it so much for than any character I've thought up without a story.

    It takes some time to figure out how we work best when it comes to writing. I've learned when things start to feel too hard or I'm stuck, it's probably because I'm trying to force something that doesn't fit or isn't really the best direction to take the story. Characters are easy to think up. We all know a ton of people who can often have a trait or two worth stealing. And we see people all the time. And people are interesting. But what really makes them interesting is what they've done or are doing or going to do. Their stories is what really makes them interesting. Stories build character, and character's come with stories. Same with real life. If your character doesn't come with any sort of story, you might not have a story there -- or a character.

    The role of setting can mean almost nothing to almost everything. But you still need a killer story to take place in it or it's just sort of a void. I usually don't give too much thought to setting because it's usually not all that important. I tend to go back in later and sort of build the setting out where it's needed to make the story feel more full and complete. But go light with setting no matter how important it is, I say. People want to read the story more than they want to read about where the story takes place.
     
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  18. Indigo Abbie

    Indigo Abbie Member

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    Half and half. I found that the more specifically I planned future chapters, the less spur-of-the-moment inspiration came to me. So I just plan what will happen in a chapter, not exactly how it happens.
     
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  19. Edward M. Grant

    Edward M. Grant Contributor Contributor

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    I've tried both, but found that outlining bored me so much that I never finished the book. I already knew the story, so what was the point of writing it?

    Now I start with a character in a setting with a problem, and write down what they do until they get to the end of the story. I probably have some vague idea of what's going to happen, or at least a title to work to, but usually it goes in some unexpected direction.

    The downside is that I probably spend half the writing time just getting the opening right, but once I know who the characters are and what they want, the rest largely writes itself.
     
  20. minstrel

    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Supporter Contributor

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    I think I'm the opposite of @deadrats. I don't write for "story" - I find stories, in themselves, somewhat meaningless if there isn't a character I'm fascinated by to begin with. To me, modifying a character to fit a plot is next to inconceivable. It doesn't make sense to me.

    I start with a character and a setting, and I put the character into a situation, a position where he has some pressure on him to take some kind of action. He can't just be left in the status quo if he's happy there. Either he has to strive to gain something he doesn't have, or he has to strive to prevent something of value from being taken from him. He has to be forced to take some kind of action that isn't routine for him. I don't know, when I begin, what action he's going to take or what the consequences will be. I learn that as I write. I learn everything important as I write. Details of character come clear. Theme emerges. Plot emerges. Usually I wind up screwing around with the plot to better clarify the theme. It's all very pantsy.
     
  21. Shenanigator

    Shenanigator Has the Vocabulary of a Well-Educated Sailor. Contributor

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    ^^^This. If I don't care about the character or if I'm not interested in learning more about that character, story and plot are useless. There's nothing compelling about a story that doesn't have compelling characters. If the characters are lacking, I stop reading and move on to another book and never give the author another chance.
     
  22. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    The character and plot are so intertwined for me that it doesn't matter which comes first. If I come up with a character first, I think about what plot events could cause her the most conflict. If I come up with a plot, I think about what kind of character would be most conflicted about it.

    But I do agree characters are more "important" than the story. A great character can carry a fairly weak/uneventful plot (e.g. the first third of Jane Eyre, the first half of Life of Pi) but I'm not going to be engaged with any number of car chases or dragon fights if I don't give a crap whether the characters live or die.
     
  23. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    Just go with the flow. :)
     
  24. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I'm wondering if there is a big difference here between novelists and short-story writers in this regard. I don't write short stories, so I have no idea what kind of mindset or operating method works best for them.

    I know my novel was pre-planned, in the sense that I knew who my characters were and had a good notion of the problem they would deal with and how the story would likely end. I did surprise myself at several points in the story, and kept things flexible. But in general, I started writing it after a great deal of thought ...and a fair amount of research as well (it's a historical novel.) I had scenes strongly envisioned before I started writing them, although I wrote out of chronological order for about half of the novel.

    I have learned to ask myself, before I start writing ANY scene : What do I want this scene to accomplish? That helps me focus on how best to tell 'what happens.' What do I want the reader to take away from a scene?

    Is it important for my reader to feel sympathy for my main character after finishing this scene? To understand the reasons why the character behaves the way they do? To understand how other people regard that character? To realise what consequences this character's actions are likely to cause?

    There are subtle differences to all these approaches. Asking yourself 'what do I want this scene to accomplish?' before you start writing will help you get it slanted the way you want.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2018
  25. xanadu

    xanadu Contributor Contributor

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    I think it's certainly possible. When I come up with shorts for the contests here, I typically decide what the story of the short is first. For my novels I create character and plot together.

    Some of my recent shorts as an example:
    --For A Holy War, I knew the story was going to be about an office prank war turned serious business and that it had to connect with the "evil winning" nature of the prompt. I then created my demon and angel characters to fit that.
    --For Dark Water, I knew the story would be about purifying the water and lampshading the obvious typo on the sign in the picture. I created a water nymph for the purification, and made her a stick-in-the-mud and created a troll-y character to troll her regarding the sign typo.

    However, for my current novel, I created Valentine the fledgling medium who was getting recruited to a mysterious organization on an island where spirits are showing up in the human plane--a plot and character tied together. Valentine doesn't exist without the mysterious island, and the mystery of the spirits showing up doesn't exist without Valentine.
     
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