Dr Laura Schlessinger -- In Praise of Stay-at-Home Moms: Opinions on the Mommy Wars?

Becca, that was awesome. When they're older, I hope my kids can look back on our recent struggles and be as positive and loving towards me as you are to your mum.

 

My two year old daughter is at nursery four days a week, but I don't think at all she has any negative effects from this; if anything its been a positive influence on her. She feels stable because there's routine, and just because me & my husband spend our days trying to earn money to feed us, it certainly mean we don't love her any less.

I was eighteen when I got pregnant, nineteen when I had her. Surely it means more that I actually went ahead with the pregnancy, putting her needs before mine to go to university, and I am now bored stiffless in a ridiculous job just so that I can give her food and clothes? Her nursery costs £140.00 a week (about $200ish dollars), and thats still cheaper than me staying at home to look after her.

I think Dr Schlessingers ideals are ridiculous. It wouldn't be beneficial to the child, if they had no siblings they would miss out on having friends their age, learning social skills only developed through friendships like that. It wouldn't be beneficial to the parents - I know my Post Natal Depression only stopped after I had returned to work, because I finally had social interaction with somebody who didnt spend four hours a day asleep, and it wouldn't be beneficial on the relationship between the parents, one would be jealous that the stay-at-home parent doesnt have to work, the stay-at-home one would be jealous that they get to spend the day with other people.

Again, just my thoughts on the subject.

 

I think it's admirable that you were willing to look at your family's situation and make the decision that you felt was best for everyone, rather than just making the decision that you liked the most. My brother and his wife had their son when she was 18 and he was 19, and my brother works all day and then does things like donate plasma to make extra money so they can pay their bills. His wife doesn't work. Could she? Yes. There are plenty of family members who would be willing to watch my nephew for a few hours a day if she wanted to work (even part time), but the idea that mothers should stay at home and raise their kids no matter what has been so deeply ingrained into her and my brother's heads by their religion that her working is an idea they won't even consider.

I think the important thing when making a decision about having a parent stay at home vs both of them working is to keep an open mind. Don't assume that one choice is right and the other wrong. Make the decision that will be best for your situation.

 

Thanks HiddenNovelist
I think some of its also came from me having to grow up with fifth-hand clothes, and home-made presents because of my Mam staying at home to look after three girls rather than go back to work, and although its made the person I am today, when I was 14 I would have killed to have been able to go on school skiing trips, or to be able to wear clothes actually bought for me, rather than handed down from my best friend when she'd grown out of them. I want to be able to give my daughter opportunities I wasn't able to have, although even with us both working full time it doesn't look like we're going to be able to do that! Anyone want to donate a winning lottery ticket? xxx

 

There were definitely effects from the lack of finances (I hesitate to call it poverty.) But, I wasn't referring to those effects. You could see, in each child, the way not getting to see their fathers and having a mother who worked constantly had affected them. The youngest, six months at the time, had speech and motor delays. The two youngest girls had severe attachment issues, and still do. You get my point.

 

the perfect quote and statement for this topic!

 

It's amazing how parenthood opened my mind. I've learned a lot since my son was born. He will be turning two in September.

A child is important, but how is this fair to double-income families or single mothers. She's saying that the desire to have a job must revolve around the children; the job and anytime the mother is out of the house is when the child is either sleeping or out of the house as well.

a situation in which a family is without a father figure to provide income while the mother stays at home; what should families do? I'm paraphrasing here, but she said that if a woman made that poor choice (completely obliterating the idea that the father figure may be serving in the armed forces or deceased, for example) Schlessinger has said that if there is no father figure in the picture, it is still wrong for the mother to go to work. Instead, these women should move back in with their parents to provide a stable familial environment for the children.

If I wasn't able to provide income, my wife would have to pick up the slack. Otherwise, we'd have to move back in with her family. Families are there to help each other, complications and problems aside. If I was not in the picture (school, armed forces, out of town work), she'd move back in with her mother. This ultimatum works for us because she is close to her family and it is something we've discussed and are comfortable with as a last resort.

This woman is living in a candyland fantasy. A stay-at-home mother isn't going to move back in with estranged or abusive parents. Also, not all parents are competent. A lot of knowledge is lost over the years; just because mommy and daddy raised three or five kids of their own doesn't mean they can do something properly or they still have it--whatever "it" is.

Daycare / child-minding is a wonderful thing. Kids learn valuable social skills far faster than stay-at-home kids. They learn to talk MUCH sooner and pick up useful skills from the other kids. I'm sort of jealous of the other parents we know who were able to put their kids into some kind of child-minding (not because I want time away from my son, but because the experience benefits his early development).

 

When I was raising my children there was not so much in the way of organized day care. You found a neighbour and made financial arrangements with her to look after your children.
You tried to find one who had children the same age as your own.
I was that neighbour for a few friends so mine always had someone to play with and do homework with.

One difference I find with day care kids and stay at home kids is the day care kids seem to have no down time skills.
They expect life to be go go go. Even when they are falling asleep on their feet. They can't seem to settle down with a book or use their imagination to entertain themselves.
I find that kind of sad.
Stay at home mom kids seem to be able to entertain themselves a bit more.
Imagination is necessary for them to learn to explore.
But times are changing so people need to change with them.

 

Can you really draw a line between daycare kids and stay at home mom kids and say that one group seems to go go go and the other can entertain themselves more? My siblings and their friends were all raised with a stay at home mom, and good god, they are the go go goingest kids I've ever seen. It makes me exhausted just watching them. Conversely, my sister works at a daycare, and from what I have seen/heard about some of the kids who she watches, they are just as capable of settling down and entertaining themselves as any other kid.

I think it depends on parenting styles and what daycare you choose, not whether or not you send them to daycare.

 

I think it depends on parenting styles and what daycare you choose, not whether or not you send them to daycare

definetly it depends on parenting style, day care and parents personality.
there is always something going on at day care.
mom or dad at home doesn't have help so they need quiet time so the children learn to play quietly or they are sent to have a nap.
neither is wrong.
I guess what I miss in children now is the lack of imagination.
this could be a global thing with all the high tech toys and tv.
but in my small town you rarely see children playing hide and seek, tag, kick the can or even just playing a game of street hockey.
everything is organized with rules.
I make wooden toys for kids and when I go to the craft fairs I have kids coming up and asking how to make them work. They ask where the batteries go.
when I say they run on imagination I get this blank stare and have to explain what imagination is.
But like I said this could be due to tv or lack of time for parents, either stay at home or day care users.
I just find it sad as it seems no child is allowed to stay a child for any length of time.

 

I support child-minding, which is why I said the author was living in some idealized fantasy world. She doesn't understand that women can't always take care of their kids. My son is a stay-at-home child. We use child-minding on some occassions.

I think that is just personality. My wife has done child-minding with daycare kids that knew how to have down-time.

How old are these kids? Under two? Three to four? My son's all over the place, but then again, all kids are like that.

How is this an accurate description of anything?

How does this relate to the topic?

 

How old are these kids? Under two? Three to four? My son's all over the place, but then again, all kids are like that.

the children from 2 to whatever.
There are a lot more hyper children today than there were when I was raising mine.
I don't know if this is day care and the early hours children need to get up so parents can get to work or just the environment of the world in general.
It isn't just the running around getting into mischief type hyper. It is the "pay attention or I will make you pay attention"



Quote:
I find that kind of sad. Stay at home mom kids seem to be able to entertain themselves a bit more. Imagination is necessary for them to learn to explore.
How is this an accurate description of anything?

It is an observation of children I have dealt with from the time I was 8 and had my first babysitting job.
Children seem to need stimulation much more today than they used to.
This is not a bad thing if it is balanced with imagination play.


Quote:
But times are changing so people need to change with them
How does this relate to the topic?

I was raised when most mothers in my town stayed at home.
I raised my children when most mothers went to work or were on welfare
if they were single.
A lucky few got to stay at home and raise their children if they wanted.
Yes I consider myself very lucky. But society made me feel unproductive
and most of the time down right lazy that I didn't work outside the home.
Now it considered acceptable and even applauded when mothers or fathers
stay at home with their children.
that is all that I meant about times changing.
How we raise our children change
How many children we have has also changed.
If society changes then people"s attitudes and outlooks have to change or
we may all end up thinking like the author of the book.
It is my way and if I want your opinion I will give it to you.
which is just wrong.

 

Thank you for clarifying that detail. I don't have much comment. Perhaps a lack of discipline/guidance. Nutrition is another problem.

I wanted to ask because your idea are vague and abstract. My only experience is with children whom are younger than two years old. That's why I had to clarify what I was mentioning above.

But times are changing so people need to change with them. I was raised when most mothers in my town stayed at home. I raised my children when most mothers went to work or were on welfare if they were single. A lucky few got to stay at home and raise their children if they wanted. Yes I consider myself very lucky. But society made me feel unproductive and most of the time down right lazy that I didn't work outside the home. Now it considered acceptable and even applauded when mothers or fathers
stay at home with their children. that is all that I meant about times changing. How we raise our children change. How many children we have has also changed. If society changes then people"s attitudes and outlooks have to change or we may all end up thinking like the author of the book. It is my way and if I want your opinion I will give it to you, which is just wrong.[/QUOTE]
Okay, I see what you are saying now. These are just trends in progressive attitudes. I was raised on certain old-fashioned ideas. I married early. My wife and I get by on a single income. Some things haven't changed: there's still social assistance, maternity/paternity, and single-income families. In Canada, Mat-Leave dries up after six months approx, and takes many hours to qualify for. Even though we've gotten by comfortably on a single income, the standard of living where I live is just too damn expensive. People cannot simply get by these days like they could in the past. People don't go out to work because they're pressured to "contribute to society". Money is the issue here, but it isn't a matter of greed.

What is so wrong with changes if they are good for society?

Anyway, to reiterate, I think this woman is forcing an opinion that works well in theory, but doesn't apply to everyone in practice. It's like designers and installers, engineers and electricians, if you know what I mean.

That aside, it seems we agree on the same thing. This author is nuts. Am I right?

 

This is another one of those generalizations that we need to let go of. Really, it depends on the parents and the daycare. All the places I've worked in/observed have a nap time right after lunch, so they do get downtime.

 

nap time to me is not down time.
down time is a time when a child sits down and plays with a toy quietly
for a while. No supervision a few toys and books.
this gives them independence appropriate to their age.
it gives them a chance to explore something with no distractions.
If they fall asleep all well and good but it isn't just to fall asleep.
Everyone needs some alone time and a child should be able to find it but when everything is go go go it is hard.
The day cares I worked at did have nap time but that was a forced issue and not a time for a child to explore his thoughts or contemplate his navel.
This is just observations I have made in my life time.
Starting at 8 years old I had a baby sister and a younger sister by two years.
I have been around children my entire life so I have observed the changes due to life style.
My children grew up around children who were in day care and in\\with stay at home moms
and as teens I could spot the difference in their attitudes and the way they behaved.
None were bad just different.

 

Many years ago, when my wife was a stay-at-home-mom, she started a home day-care to help us with the budget. She took in three small kids and gave them the same family structure as our own kids, This included supervised outdoor exercise time, "sharing" time and "reading time" every afternoon when she would read them a children's story. Sometimes the day-care kids cried when their parents arrived because they did not want to go home! Those parents weren't bothered by that reaction, they understood how valuable such a healthy environment was for their kids. So, not all day-care programs reflect regimentation and emotionally cold environments.

 

Wouldn't "go-go-go" tire a child out from all the moving around and stimulation. If they are interacting with other kids throughout the day, that should tire the child out by night. While they are doing this, they are also learning to socialize or communicate with other children. Children also get "downtime" while playing around other children. They do this in the way they interact and share toys, or in certain activities. They can share different toys in the same room, for instance, or they could paint separately in close proximity.

Also, a good daycare should encourage children to have downtime (for young children, that would be coloring, playing with cars and wooden toys, sandboxes, painting, etc). Anyone who is paying 850$ - $1000 Canadian a month just to have their kids play videogames or sit in front of the TV all day is not getting their dollar's worth. That is not how my wife and I would operate a registered daycare, nor what I would want to send our child to.

Also, daycares are not necessarily the large community facilities we think of. There are licensed and registered daycares which take in a maximum of one or two children. This is more along the lines of child-minding, which you spoke of Lessa. You can think of it as paid child-minding under qualified caretakers, which is subsidized by the government.

 

My 2 yeardaughter is at a private nursery, there are about 25 children in her room with 5 nursery nurses - the girls who look after them. I've found that my daughter, compared to my friends daughter who is the same age & also an only child, but who has a stay at home mam, is more independant and able to occupy herself because she doesn't always have an adult right there with her to play with her. She is looked after well, definitely, but the children there are able to sit on their own and do what they want to any time they want, or choose to go and play with the other children or with a nursery nurse if they want to. My daughter is more than happy to sit in her ball pool on her and sort the balls out into different colours at home, whereas my friends daughter expects her mam to be there sorting them out with her because shes not used to being left to occupy herself.

 

Again, it sounds like you're making generalizations. I would love to see the daycares that you've been to. Before lunch, they also got a period of free time, usually outside, or in the closest thing they had to a gym if it was too cold or wet out. In the toddler room before snack time, while they were often directed to certain activities at one point during the morning, the teacher did it one or two children at a time. The others were free to choose their own activities or just sit, with or without a book. A mother on her own can do the exact same thing in terms of downtime/being "go-go-go". I've seen ridiculous over-scheduling that mothers can do.

 

this has turned more of a discussion on day care than dc versus sahm.

there are great day cares just like there are great moms or dads.
In Canada I think the ratio of children to worker is 5 to 1.
this is reasonable. More than that and the worker gets burned out.
Day care has to be very structured or it would fall apart quickly.
Also children in a group situation need to know the rules and consequences.

Yes all children need to know rules and consequences but if they are with
a parent it does not have to be so structured. Less children competing for
attention. And the parent has a bit more leeway into timing of rules and
when to stretch the rules a bit.

This next is just my observations so take them as such please.

Many children thrive in the day care situation.
they are out going and yes need the stimulation of lots of play mates
and activities offered there.
Some children find it a perfect hell.
They are shy, or they just don't care for other children. Not that they
would be bullies to others they just don't understand them. Some do
get over this with time and that is good but others just withdraw more.

If Domoviye reads this I will probably get an email saying "MOOOOM" did
you have to say that" but I am going to talk about my children and their
friends here.

My eldest son Ray would probably have done well in day care.
he is the type that goes from A - D but has about 3 plans to get there.
He needs to know he has a back up system if something goes wrong.
Dom goes from A - D and if anything happens in between he figures it
is an adventure. No back up plan but figure it out as you go.
Neither of them have or had a great number of friends. They had each
other so they didn't figure it was all that necessary.
They also had their father and I as examples, which may have been a
bit of a set back. We are not people keepers. We don't party, we don't
even socialize much. Don't get me wrong we like and enjoy people but
tend to keep them at arms length.
Dom also has a learning disability which would have made day care a struggle
for him.
He is dyslexic and that makes game playing hard for him.
He gets left and right mixed up so playing a game where speed in decisions is
imparative he is out of luck. He also can't see past his nose without glasses so
sports are not a fun thing for him.
So he is the type day care would be the wrong place for him.
We were lucky that I could stay home and raise him and teach him tricks to get
past the disability. He even learned to read and now teaches.
I am proud of him but also so glad that I had the training the patience and the
time to teach him. He would not have turned out the way he did if he had to rely
on day care and the school system.
Sometimes a friend providing day care is much better than the larger day cares.
case in point.
I was looking after 2 children brother and sister.
the boy knocked over a bookcase and it could have killed him since it was made out
of 2 by 6 wood frame and 1x8 wood shelves. He had climbed up it to get a toy I took
away from him.
I made him help me put everything 100 books potted plants all back and then he vacumed the rug. End of case I thought.
I got a call that night from the mother asking me what had happened since the father
had his belt out and was going to beat Todd since his sister had told what happened.
I went down to their apt. and was telling the father that what happened in my apt. when his children were in my care I would deal with and I had. He said it was up to him
to punish his own children in his own way.
Now anyone who knows me knows that you do not threaten children.
I grabbed the belt with the big buckle and said "If Todd came up to my place with so much as a bruise I would come down take the belt off his pants and use it on him." He was known by a few people to be a drunk and a bully and I had known him for years but he didn't remember me at all.
Now if that had happened at a day care Todd would have been beaten and nothing more would have happened but by me being in the same building I was able to stop the abuse.
That was 30 years ago when people were still very afraid to go to the police with a complaint of this sort since nothing was usually done about it. Thankfully that is now changed.
Day care is a necessity in today's society and it is much better than the alternative to latch key children in bad neighbourhoods so I would never knock the good ones. I would like to see improvements but that is happening slowly.
Even stay at home moms use them which is good when they need a break or emergencies crop up. Grandma isn't always available to step in and take the child for the afternoon so mom can go get a hair cut or even have a shower without the children standing outside the bathroom door asking what she is doing.
My advice to those who have children is to watch them.
they give off clues in body language about things that are going on.
if they are in day care no matter the size drop in unexpectedly and
see how they act around the other children.
see what form of discipline is being used.
see how tears are dealt with.
It is up to you to raise your children sure you need help but the final
say is always yours.
protect your children and make their lives as comfortable as you can make it.
stay at home or employed you are still the parent and your children must be
able to come to you at any age.

 

I have seven brothers and sisters...my sister in law grew up in a family with 13 kids...children with parents who stay at home don't always have less competition for attention.

Back on topic, I agree with what you said about parents being parents, regardless of whether they work or not. If a parent decides that they want or need to work, so they need to put their kid(s) in daycare, then of course, they should put effort and thought into which daycare they choose. If you have a child with special needs, or if you have particular things that you are looking for in a daycare, then find one that fits what you need. Sending your kids to daycare doesn't mean that their childhood will not be as good as if they had a sahm to take care of them. And every child is different, so how can we say that the difference between "x" child and "y" child is that one had a sahm and one was in daycare?

 

as you say every child is different
and no you can't say it was because
one was sent to day care and one was
with a sahm.
my 2 sons were raised in the same home
by the same parents and you could not
see two more different personalities as adults.
one son is family oriented almost to the exclusion
of outside friends.
the other is also family oriented but he
loves meeting people and seeing and experiencing
new things.
I do not think you can blame or praise the differences
in people on day care or home raising.
the way they are raised does influence to a great deal
but also their own personalities take a bigger role if they
are allowed to express themselves.

 

Lessa, we're off topic here, I think. The fact remains that the standard of living has risen to a point where most families cannot get by on a single income.

One cannot also blame a single mother for making any kind of mistake in the first place. Is it her fault, for instance, if the man was at fault--because he was a danger to the family, ran off, or wasn't responsible enough? That is not the woman's fault, so the author is wrong to point that out.

So we take our paternity / maternity leave. Getting someone to help you out isn't always practical, Lessa. Sure, I'd love dear old mother in law to quit her job so my wife can work. That's not practical. My family lives far away, plus they're not reliable either. Our friends work and have children of their own. So we get by on a single income, even though we need more money. In September, we're enrolling our son into a "pre-preschool", called "Twostime". Daycare would be great for him, except its roughly 1000$ a month.

Daycare also comes in handy for work shifts that end late and you need someone to take care of your kid for a few hours (i.e. 3 to 5, or 3 to 6).

 

As I said it was becoming a day care discussion.
I know the cost of living is forcing women to work who would rather be at home.
My son and his wife for 2 children and one after school are paying almost $3000.
a month on day care.
I never blame a woman for being a single parent.
I never look down my nose on them either.
They have it rough enough without judgement being passed usually wrongly.

 

3000 is quite a lot. Couples here pay half where we live. On average, it's about 800 per child. Fortunately, it's subsidized depending on how low your income is. Good for students.