Enough is enough, ladies

Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Jack Asher, Feb 7, 2015.

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  1. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I heard you guys don't have dem boobs no more on page 3...
     
  2. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I honestly don't know to be honest. I've heard it's back. Might check this out.
     
  3. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I always thought that was pretty special. Sure, might be sexist, but I like details like that in different cultures that show they aren't freaking out over a little bit of nudity.
     
  4. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    That fits in the category of stripper. :)
     
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  5. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    There was a hilarious period where people were saying it wasn't about the breasts, it was about models getting a way for you to read their opinions. I was able to turn my eyes away once, and it was just 'I think we shouldn't go into Libya because wars are mean' - something like that.

    Haha, good point!
     
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  6. Chinspinner

    Chinspinner Contributor Contributor

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    Lilly, 34DD, believes that the base rate should be increased to 1.5% by the Bank of England to prevent runaway inflation.

    They always made me laugh.
     
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  7. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    They were fantastic. :D
     
  8. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    I'm not interested in movie stars. This is about the general population. As has already been established, I'm rather thick, so you'll have to explain to me better how the percentages I gave you in regard to pay are invalidated. According tonthensource I posted, equal work, and qualifications etc are all accounted for


    Also, if you don't have time to argue my points that's fine, but can you at least explain to me why you're happy that men are falling behind in education?
     
  9. Fullmetal Xeno

    Fullmetal Xeno Protector of Literature Contributor

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    In what part of her response insinuated that she was happy about men declining in educational influence?
     
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  10. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Lilly Ledbetter was not a movie star. I did argue your point, singular, the issue is not who earns more over their careers or by job category. There are many examples, easily found of women being paid less for the same work.

    It does you no good to post red herrings. I merely meant I would also look at those additional arguments because they are just like your college stats, people go to great lengths to deny reality that looks very bad when it is exposed to daylight. There are many rebuttals to those claims to have ruled out other variables and found equal pay.

    Remember, you are talking to someone who has worked in one of the most seriously underpaid professions my whole career. I've experienced unequal pay in my own career. Nurse practitioners in my state have independent authority to practice as well as more education than physician assistants. PAs can only practice under a licensed physician. More PAs are male, more NPs are female.

    One area hospital paid the PAs more than the NPs for the exact same positions because the PAs were in the physician department and the NPs were in the nursing department.

    Nurse managers have always been underpaid compared to other hospital administrators despite having more employees under them and equal or greater responsibility.

    So don't try to tell me that pay inequity has to do with childbearing and shorter careers because I have lived with this inequity most of my career.
     
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  11. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    @Fullmetal Xeno here you go
     
  12. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    So personal experience is valid over statistics in this particular instance? Again, iv showed you statistics that show a much smaller gap.
     
  13. Fullmetal Xeno

    Fullmetal Xeno Protector of Literature Contributor

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    "Good for us" can mean many things. If it was "Go Women, we can beat those idiotic males" than that accusation would be valid.
     
  14. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    In the striving for equality, which is what feminists claim to aspire to , "good for us" is not an appropriate response. At the very least, one would expect, "yes that statistic is alarming. We should make sure of the reasons for this apparent inequality" not simply dismissing it as"men slack off," well lets just say if you said that about any other demographic, there'd be an explosion right now.

    Also, @Fullmetal Xeno after "good for us " she says "we have a lot further to go" she also said "men slack off" What does this imply to you?
     
  15. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    I meant he'd agree with you :oops:
     
  16. Chinspinner

    Chinspinner Contributor Contributor

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    I can understand where Numbers is coming from to some extent. But I would phrase it as follows: -

    There are some people who want equality, and there are others who want privilege (and I am sure some of them would label themselves Feminists). The difficulty for the people seeking equality is trying to prevent those wanting privilege from derailing their argument, and they tend to derail the argument in two ways: -
    • turning the issue into some battle of the sexes rather than recognising that there are many men who want equality just as there are some (high profile) women who apparently don't.
    • throwing the term "misogyny" around like some get out of jail free card, while simultaneously throwing sexist and stereotypical labels at men.
    They derail the argument because, rather than seeing people as people, they label men as a powerful and controlling force to be overcome and women as weak and oppressed, which only serves to reinforce the status quo.

    That is my ten cents anyway.
     
  17. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Sometimes personal experience encompasses extensive expertise. It's one thing to say I was underpaid once. It's quite another to say I've had a long career as a nurse and nurse practitioner, and I've been a very active participant in lifting up that profession, not to mention knowing a lot about the issues: nursing being a mainly female profession, nursing's image in the media through time, lack of supply and demand pressures on wages as hospitals allowed staffing shortages rather than pay higher wages, the fight in this state to become an autonomous profession, the changes in the profession that resulted in defining nursing diagnoses, even the founder of the profession, Florence Nightingale, wasn't given her due credit as a scientist and statistician.

    We aren't just talking about a couple personal anecdotes here.
     
  18. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    And by the same token, some people bring this on themselves assuming every woman who wants equity must be trying to emasculate men.
     
  19. Jack Asher

    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    Those statistics cover the whole breadth of all wages. The fact that there is a pay gap there is disturbing. But you're not showing statistics for men and women in the same positions. Where the actual pay gap is 26%
    http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat39.pdf
     
  20. Chinspinner

    Chinspinner Contributor Contributor

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    True
     
  21. Fullmetal Xeno

    Fullmetal Xeno Protector of Literature Contributor

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    The role of women still have to meet the peak of what the men have had since the dawn of time? Ginger is not celebrating the failure of males, she's seeing the positive for women's efforts finally being recognized by statistics. The slacking nature of today's males is definitely not something to celebrate about. But neither is the reality of men driving over women.
     
  22. Okon

    Okon Contributor Contributor

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    I was speaking on the initial, broad terms put forth by the OP and @Ankoku Teion. I guess my post wasn't clear on that?
    Okon said:
    Unequal wages are a problem. I wasn't arguing against that. When it comes to job opportunities, though, there will be times when women are hired over men because of their gender. Daycares are a good example of this: I think people naturally trust women more. Reverse-sexism can definitely be a factor as well.

    I'm not spinning this so men are facing hard odds—they're really not (yet); I just think it's important to note that this is not black and white. Each area needs to be worked on with tweezers and a magnifying glass:

    Women deserve the same wage as their male counterparts.
    Men who are sexually assaulted or living with spousal abuse shouldn't be dismissed with a snicker and handwave.
    Women shouldn't have to treat getting from their car to their apartment door at midnight like crossing the raptor enclosure in Jurassic Park.
    Potential employees should not be selected only on the basis of gender.
    Fathers and mothers should be examined more objectively in child custody battles.
     
  23. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    So we can add underpaid daycare worker to stripper and waitress. :p
     
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  24. Okon

    Okon Contributor Contributor

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    I'll eventually think of other things! :oops: Eventually...
     
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  25. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    So...offering someone a ride is making them submissive?

    "So what are you doing this afternoon?"
    "Grocery shopping. God, I hate dragging the bags home on the bus."
    "Want a ride? It's no trouble."
    "How DARE you try to make me submit! Get away from me!"
    "Huh? I was just..."
    "Help! Help! Police! This woman is trying to force me to submit to a ride to the grocery! POLICE!"
     
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