1. DoctorFitz

    DoctorFitz Member

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    Examples on how to defeat an immortal character?

    Discussion in 'Character Development' started by DoctorFitz, Oct 26, 2019.

    My main villain would be Lucifer who gains immortality by turning his body to a sentient mass of energy — and following the first law of thermodynamics, energy can't be destroyed (or atleast that's what im trying to potray). However, MC, a man of science, will use another part of the thermodynamic law saying that energy could still be converted. So eventually MC will convert Lucifer to another form of energy that causes explosion, thus scattering his conciousness far away.

    But of course im open to possibility of another ways to defeat him. The problem is i haven't read much story with immortal villains, so the only example i could think of is Kars from Jojo's part 2 where he was thrown away to space by an errupting volcano and is cursed to float in the space without being able to die. Any other examples i could look up into?
     
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  2. marshipan

    marshipan Contributor Contributor

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    In Anita Blake Vampire Hunter there is an immortal vampire that can mentally attack anyone in the world. It boils down to the main character consuming the villain's spirit/entire essence--like a vampire would consume blood. Sounds fairly similar to your idea, in that the villain's sentience/power is ate, thus becoming converted energy.
     
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  3. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 Contributor Contributor

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    Energy? Suck him into some kind of trap with proton beams. Just remember not to cross the streams.
     
  4. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Lock them up. There are a number of ways that has been done in stories with immortal characters.
     
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  5. Richach

    Richach Contributor Contributor

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    I think you have the right idea yourself. If Lucifer was happy to be scattered, that way he would be impossible to irradicate. He may be breathed in by all living beings etc. Thus spreading his influence through all living things. I guess becoming a permenant form of life itself.
     
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  6. DoctorFitz

    DoctorFitz Member

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    But the final battle takes place in Hell, so no living being would inhale him except maybe some minor demons, and of course they'd close all gateways gate Hell to Earth after that. However i keep his conciousness intact because well, he didn't convert his conciousness, only his physical body. So, he can't really live, but is unable to die.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
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  7. Cilogical

    Cilogical Active Member

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    His energy could be converted to potential energy, i.e. trapped in something that has the power to harness it and keep it dormant.
     
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  8. Cdn Writer

    Cdn Writer Contributor Contributor

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    Not really your question but what if his "converted energy" was into "thought"? It would be scattered but every person has thought, right? Anytime someone thought of him, dreamed of him, etc his influence would be there. He'd be immortal....

    Defeating an omipotent being....perhaps not possible and you'd have to settle for imprisoning him permanently.
     
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  9. DoctorFitz

    DoctorFitz Member

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    I thought of this one before. Well, the final battle takes places in Hell, and the explosion caused by all those energy in his body pulled out from him would destroy most if not all demons there. Though, i want to write something in the end of the story stating that the danger still exists, the only difference is that this time humans are ready to face it (not in a way to show that there would be a sequel of this story or things like that). So in case if his soul could find a way to repossess another demon body, he will have a hard time going out of Hell this time as both humans and angels have cooperated to close the leak.

    Imprisoning him was an option too, but i don't know how to execute it well with the aspects of my story. If i make MC suddenly make a containing device out of nowhere near the end of the story, i don't see that it will be a good idea (the idea of 'converting' Lucifer comes after they find out about his method to gain immortality which is just before the final showdown, and to execute the plan, MC used a device that have been used throughout the story).
     
  10. Damage718

    Damage718 Active Member

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    Maybe you could do something like what Tolkien did with Melkor (who essentially is Lucifer in Tolkien lore), where he was cast through the Door of Night into the Void. He is imprisoned there, but it was written that he will return for the final battle one day.

    So in effect, he has been defeated and his energy 'scattered' but it still exists in some form.

    Perhaps in your story, Lucifer could be defeated, and the resulting explosion scatters his energy into some form of permanently guarded prison. Thus, the threat of him is removed but since he still exists in some form, it leaves the door open for you to write an epilogue or whole sequel.
     
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  11. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 Contributor Contributor

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    The immortal's energy form is susceptible to electromagnetic waves in certain patterns.

    It turns out that the way to defeat him is to blast digitised Disney songs at him.
     
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  12. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Re Tolkien's ideas, sometimes immortals can be defeated in special ways. Thinking of the famous scene, "No man can kill me." "I am no man."
     
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  13. InsaneXade

    InsaneXade Member

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    Well, you might want to consider giving him a weakness. Say his essence is immortal but the machine that turned him that way must stay running somewhere that he protects very well with a trusted associate or team that can be bribed or appealed in order to destroy him. However, allow him to leave notes on how to do it for a sequel or two until they find a way to destroy the notes.

    A great villain has weaknesses and a true personality that turns them into a villain you love to hate. Don't just say he's evil for the sake of evil, that gets boring fast. You don't have to show all of his backstory, but it's best to create it anyway then sprinkle it in the story like salt. Enough to engage the reader and give them information. Keep the info dumps to yourself. You'll need to expand and know Lucifer's story just as much as you know your main characters. Why did he decide to do this? What kind of childhood did he have that gave him the idea to do this? What happened to him as a teen and an adult to make him want to turn immortal. Did he have an incurable sickness? Once he became an energy being did he start looking down on the "fleshies" and become corrupt? What makes Lucifer tick?

    I know it may be hard to rewrite your story once you expand on Lucifer but trust me, it's for the best. Never ever be afraid to start over. I had to do the same thing to many scenes once I followed a friend's advice and gave my villain a true backstory. Once I breathed life into him and wove him into the tapestry of the tale, the whole story came together and became epic. Breathe life into Lucifer and do what I did. You'll see an epic story in the making that readers cannot put down.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  14. DoctorFitz

    DoctorFitz Member

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    I did a backstory for him. He's not just there to be evil, there is a reason there why he would side against God and despise humans. He is supposed to be a worse version of MC with even more wicked ideology, and MC is already a slightly nihilistic person to begin with. But is it wrong if i make him unstoppable as long as he is in the energy form? Of course there is a moment where MC could win before he was immortal, but that's in the middle part of the story
     
  15. psychotick

    psychotick Contributor Contributor

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    Hi,

    What sort of energy? Light? If so cast his light into a black hole. Heat? Scatter the heat over such a wide region of space that it can no longer maintain its sentience. Electricity? Absorb him into some sort of giant capacitor.

    Cheers, Greg.
     
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  16. InsaneXade

    InsaneXade Member

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    As long as you did your villain right people will just love to hate him. I was once in the plot hole of making an unstoppable villain who could not die. In my world there are magic talents of varying degrees and my villain, Thour had healing first degree. Once it matured he remained frozen at 18 and any injury whatsoever would heal given time. I had a very hard time figuring out how to actually him. Anything I tried, short of a stellar demise, would fail because of how I made the talent work. In the end, I scrapped the idea and gave him an intimidation talent, while leaving his "immortality" tied to golden bangles that he wore. This served to give him a weakness that he guarded zealously. Aden, the hero, figured it out and kept trying to deprive him of them with his own third degree equal mass exchange: he can exchange anything of equal mass if he knows where it is. (His talent remained unchanged in all versions of the books.) Of course, there are many spells and deterrents protecting them but in the end, it's not Aden but someone else who alters them so Thour is no longer ageless. In a later book, the bangles are given to Thour's best friend who is much more to Thour than he knows, but that's another story.

    In short, always give the immortal ones a weakness that ramps up the thrill factor that makes the reader scoot forward in their seat and whisper "almost...almost...dang!"
     
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  17. Nesian

    Nesian Active Member

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    Claim that when Lucifer fell to Earth it was in a capsule that is the cave where Jesus was resurrected and can secure Lucifer's energy. Call it the holy grail and say that to protect a powerful Arch angel/son of God when it travelled from Heaven to Earth it did so by amplifying their grace to act as an inner/outer shield.
     
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  18. DoctorFitz

    DoctorFitz Member

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    I left the thread for few hours and i see a lot of helping suggestions when i get back. Sadly i cant reply to all of it because i dont want to spam the thread.

    Antimatters.

    So here is my idea of energy in my story: everything in the universe, matters and antimatters, were made from energy , even living beings. The difference with living beings is that they are 'solid' energy, and once they die, the matter energy will disperse and reunite with the universe itself. Antimatters exists to balance matters, like north and south pole of a magnet, so the amount of combined antimatters and matters in the universe will always stay the same. It is possible for antimatters to be converted to matter and vice versa, but through a risky method. Antimatters are not physical, so for antimatters to be able to affects physical plane, it must be converted to matters.

    MC's device can convert antimatters to matters and use it whether to straight out shooting enemies with antimatter beams or to construct something with it for a brief moment (the more complex the construction the more time it takes and the risks will be bigger). Said action is possible if the device is able to read the user's physical signs that could be achieved by feeling their emotions, and negative emotions gives bigger impact than positive ones. However, overusing this device will force the user's brain to make the physical signs that could even mean death to the user. (In short, a small converter that detects your negative emotions and use that emotions to temporarily convert antimatters to matters, with risks)

    Lucifer's goal and the reason why he confronted MC in the first place is because he needed MC's converter to convert his own body (matters) to antimatters with his sentience intact. By achieving this, he is no longer a 'solid energy' like the first paragraph. He IS energy, and according to the first law of thermodynamics, energy can't be destroyed. But after MC reversed the conversion, his whole body which is now made from antimatters is returned to it's non-physical form, causing an explosion that scattered his sentience all over Hell.

    Blackholes come to my mind at first, but then i remember that there is no outer space in my story, just Earth, Hell, and a little talking scene in Heaven. Also MC never build a space rocket before because he never needed one.
     
  19. Cilogical

    Cilogical Active Member

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    Limbo?
    Dante’s Inferno? Layers of hell?
    Blackholes between layers?
     
  20. psychotick

    psychotick Contributor Contributor

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    Hi,

    Anti-matter, at least in normal physics, will combine with and explode if it touches normal matter, and both will be completely destroyed in the explosion, with a corresponding release of energy. That's how anti-matter reactors / drives work.

    Cheers, Greg.
     
  21. Nesian

    Nesian Active Member

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    Scientists theorise that it was the combination of both that caused the big bang and that the Universe is almost entirely made up of matter. Only the fermionic dirac matter is theorised to be created in pairs. So to destroy anti-matter you'd have to create theories on top of the theories that already exist imo.
     
  22. DoctorFitz

    DoctorFitz Member

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    Uhh, yes, i admit that i probably didn't searched enough literature about antimatter and only reading like the first few articles coming out in Google search. But this gives me an idea: if the contact of matter and antimatter causes damage to both, then that's how MC uses antimatter to damage something. If he shoots a beam of antimatter, then the contact it made with matters along the reason why antimatter could damage infrastructures and even kill a living being.

    I also have an idea to treat antimatter and universe like life and body. I mean, life exists inside our body, but we can't see or touch it. But we know that it is still inside us because we still live. In this case, antimatter exists in in the universe in a non-physical state, and thus, have no contact with matter until MC found a way to convert them.

    Though now i don't really know which route to go; logic and science wise, should i make the converter turns antimatter to matter, or give it a temporary physical state?
     
  23. GrJs

    GrJs Active Member

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    Immortal doesn't mean invulnerable to attack. Just that they could conceivably live forever if no mortal harm comes to them.

    I think you've got an interesting concept, but a note for it, the energy does all have to be converted into one thing. You can divert it where and into what you want which would help with your scattering Lucifer fragments to the far reaches of the universe. But there's always the chance that, like Voldemort, the pieces of Lucifer remain sentient of gain sentience and try to reform.

    Making Lucifer an intangible medium might be your downfall here. Like a wind monster. You can't stop the wind, only divert it.
     
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