Experiences with beta-readers

Just say "THANK YOU". If they say anything about your work that hurts your feelings or you disagree with don't argue with me, don't try and explain - just say thanks for your time write down what they've said encase others repeat it later and move on. There's nothing worse than giving your time to a stranger for no real gain of your own, for them to throw it back in your face and not even thank you. Plus, while your explaining and defending you're not listening. In a writing class we did, when our work was being critique we had to shut our mouths and say nothing! It was hard.

Be specific on what you want back. Let them know what feedback you need or if it's just general.

Make sure your work is free of typos, spelling mistakes and just as good as you can make it. If you're aware of a mistake, correct it before you post. Otherwise it just wastes the beta's time for them to point out a mistake you know about. I've had that and it irritated me. Wasted nearly an hour reading someone's work for them to claim they knew all the mistakes I'd mentioned were there. So I didn't help them and wasted an hour of my time.

Don't see negative criticism (and by that I mean improvements suggested) as an attack and get butt hurt. See them as other people trying to help you make your work better. Some do see anything other than "it's amazing" as an insult. Not so much on here but on other forums I've used.

Also important go and be a beta reader for others if you aren't all ready. And if you join a forum, obviously read the guidelines for submitting. Some you have to earn so many points before you can post, but not all forums help you out like that in the way you know when your posts will be well received. The last thing you want to do is join, post immediately and get a back lash for it. I've seen that happen, but again not on here, which is why I think the "50 posts" was a good idea to create.

Can't think of anything else right now. Hope that was helpful and that I made sense. It's 4am in the morning where I am

 

Is there a guide for how to be a beta reader?

I just did my first this week, two short stories and I will do a third today.

I enjoyed all of the stories but thinking back over my feedback, I feel I was "toned down" in my first feedback as I was feeling my way through the attempt. The author was appreciative and thanked me for the feedback so I was a bit more detailed with my feedback on the second story.

Is there a hard and fast rule about being a beta reader? I assume that most people don't want a beta reader for a basic grammar or spell check and it is more for "does this story work?" Where does it fail? Where does it succeed? What do you think is missing? Etc.

Am I right?

 

Where would I post here to enquire about finding a beta reader? I am still writing my rough draft for the first book in my vampire series, and would just overall like to see if people fine the story itself interesting.

 

From my own experience, I find a good beta reader / author relationship is at its best when you both write down and agree a few points of what the author wants from the feedback. Things to focus your eye on. Because at the end of the day, that's what this is about. It's kind of like market research, and the author wants to know about his/her product.

- Pacing is one of the main things to keep an eye on, and report back with - especially with sci-fi, fantasy, horror and more popular forms of fiction. Because those authors that want to publish will want their readers to be engrossed in their story. I remember David Brin once saying that he asked his beta readers to specifically mark down the place in the page that they put his novel down - EVEN if it was to go to bed/work etc. So he could then put something important in there, just so he could try and make that part have a hook or a hint that might just keep you reading on. I'm not advocating that last bit, to me its feels very artificial. But, overall, pacing of when you get bored, when the story drifts, things seem to lose your interest? That's important for a beta reader to report to the author.

- Characters are usually another main focus that authors want you to keep an eye on. My editor once pointed out to me that she felt a bit jarred by one of my characters suddenly feeling repulsed by the mission that she had just been given. I had given the set up, it was an underhanded cover-up she was being asked to do. But, despite me previously showing how moral the character was before that, I had forgotten to re-inforce it with actions showing her feelings after being given the mission. I had missed the fact that I had missed a step in the explanation process because I'm -inside- the character's head, not seeing it from the outside. And no matter how much we try sometimes to look at things from the readers viewpoint, you never see things "fresh," like they do, ever. So, character feedback is invaluable.
To add to that, I even wanted my editor to FEEL jarred at one point. Because at that certain point, I want the reader to realize one of the characters (which i mislead on purpose) is not the protagonist, but an antagonist. She told me she was unsettled when she read it, in a good way, without my prompting. So I knew I had done what I wanted. Hidden things the author wants to surprise the reader with are good to report back on, and if they did it on purpose, then it reinforces that they got it right.
Along the same line, but still another part that is strong to mention in this section, is did you feel you stayed with the characters long enough during a scene/chapter. Did you feel they dwelled on something too long? (When I edit my editors work, she tends to have her character over-analyze moral problems. I tell her when it becomes too much.) This is especially important when reading a standalone novel or the first one of a series. You can get introduced to multiple main characters who have their own chapters, one after another after another. The worst thing is when you read a chapter of one character, change to another, and either because the author spent too long with one, or not enough with another, or didn't make one of them or what they did interesting enough, you half forget who or what was going on with one of them. This is a balancing act, and again, because the author isn't seeing it "fresh" through your eyes, they can only judge what they think is best to balance this out and make you feel strongly linked to both (or more).
Because my novel has a good few characters in it (not as insanely high as Game of Thrones, for instance), I thought about the pros and cons of that epic and vast scale of storytelling before I started my novel. I even looked up hundreds of reviews for the very first book (Game of Thrones) and read only the negative reviews, to see if they matched up with what I thought the cons were. BY far, the majority of bad reviews included not enough time being spent with certain characters, or scenes not being given enough time for the reader to take in the reaction (Ned Stark's death was high on this point, but I think that was done on purpose by Mr.RRRRRMartin for shock value that the negative reviewer didnt get, but meh, I still took it on board)
You need to tell the author when you wanted to spend more time with a character, so that you feel you would remember who they were and what they were doing when the author moves on to a new one.

- Continuity Errors / Plot holes. I get so utterly sick of modern movie screenwriting. The big-budget studios spend millions on special effects, millions on the actors, directors, locations and sets. But the movie executives are SO dumb, and trust to their marketing department so much, that they then hang ALL of those many millions of dollars and quality talent on giving one or two poor sods only a few weeks to a month to come up with a two and a half hour (so they have extra footage) movie script, and then expect it to be amazeballs. That's why modern blockbuster movies (at least the majority) are as dumb as rocks these days when it comes to basic logic and plot holes.
<<<<And this is from an ardent, lifelong Star Wars fan, that has fell out of love with it so much that he never even bothered going to see Rise of Skywalker at the cinema. Because at hearing the insanity of the plot holes, along with it sounding like a ClusterF***, didn't want to waste money on it. >>>>
Most readers are less forgiving, partly because authors are supposed to be more "educated" or "intelligent," but mostly because a long novel takes you months to a year to write. More than enough time to work out the continuity errors or massive plot holes. But again, like the previous point about characters, sometimes authors are inside the action, and cant see things objectively, so even a continuity error/plot hole that they would spot in someone else's work, they won't spot in their own. If you see an internal logic failure, either by a character or action or plot, I want it pointed out to me.

- Plot Itself. Did you enjoy the plot. Was it too complex? Was it too simple, and missing an extra layer of "zing?" Did you feel the arcs of the characters played out well? This one is a bit more obvious, so I wont spend that much time on it. Twists, turns, did you like or dislike, did you see them coming? If you didn't, point it out! Let the author know it was good, and their trick worked. If I'm a magician, and you saw how I did the trick, i need to be told so that I can up my misdirection game.
Did you feel like a character was missing the end to his/her story arc. Was it too simple? Did it need a spanner thrown in the works?
Basically, the main thing that will help the author most in this very generalized area, is what makes it constructive criticism over just plain criticism - and that is what do YOU think you would've wanted more out of it. How would you solve a problem you found. What would you do so that it would've made you enjoy it more. The author can agree or disagree, but if just one beta reader comes up with a thought that the author thinks is bang on, then you've just helped him/her improve their book.

Some do it in Stages - Some authors would prefer you look for and focus on just one, a couple, or a few of these categories in a run-through, which is where this goes back full circle to the beginning - the best way to be a beta reader is to ask the author which of these points he/she wants you to focus on.


Wow, I was intending to just make a bullet points list. *blushes* I think that I'm extra sensitive to wanting good feedback, since it wont be too far off before I put my book into the hands of beta readers.
But anyway, that's what I'm hoping and will be asking beta readers to look for. And that's some of the things I've been asked to look out for and do with other authors, so I hope it helps.

 

Part of what happened is that I thought beta-reading and critiquing other people's work was the same thing and I wanted to build up a pile of critiques because I was expecting to do a massive info dump of my novel in progress.....sadly, still in progress.

Then I realized that beta reading and critiquing aren't the same; and if I want to be published, my work can't go into here - at least not more than.....10% or 20% or it will be considered to be "published" already and the publishers don't like that....sigh.

And, while I was doing the beta reads, I found out I liked it! I've been fortunate that the authors I've worked with are ok with my feedback. I don't know if I have a "set" format that I follow.

I've made comments like a specific situation which was described would be stronger as an illustration rather than word description but I also point out that I'm a visual person. This is something *I* want so if it doesn't fit the author's vision, ignore me.

I've asked sometimes about idioms or things that might not be available in a specific setting, for example if someone is in a battle during the American civil war and they have coffee, was coffee available? Harry Turtledove's alternate history talks about chicory for example, not coffee.

And, I also really enjoy seeing how other writers have dealt with things. I've been inspired to come up with a few things to flesh out my characters and their dialogue.

I guess I'm doing something right. People have been good about it as well, just sending like 2, 3 chapters or 2 or 3 short stories at a time. It might be overwhelming if someone sent me a draft of "War & Peace: Part 2" that came in at 200,000 words.

Scott

 

Oh gosh...well, I've done a lot of beta-ing, particularly at a forums I used to go to, and honestly I love beta-ing. It's fun to put on my editor hat to help people, and I always try to go into depth when I do it.

However, in all the times I've had other people look at my work, I've had a sum total of 1 decent beta reader. One was angry at me for describing a dragon as puppy-like. Apparently she was mad at me because it wasn't "realistic", but since dragons aren't real and the one I wrote was a figment of someone's imagination, well, I don't know what was her deal. She had a bunch of other almost funny "critiques." So I guess that was my worst experience, but the main thing was that people rarely said much about my work. I'm of the opinion that it's better to criticize the work and risk offending them rather than pretending they're alright to spare their feelings, and the people who have beta'd me seem to either have very little to say or no desire to say it. This one time I asked for a beta reader, and one volunteer said he would if we swapped. So here I am working hard on his, and on mine I get a total of ten or so comments. One of which was the result of him not knowing that the singular of "dice" is "die."

Lol, I shouldn't be a whiner, but it's honestly disheartening. Or am I expecting too much? I really like critiquing, so maybe I'm just expecting other people to feel the same way.

 

This a great forum. I've used a few betas recently myself. After struggling to find some free ones I ended up getting a few fairly cheap (I think) betas.

As I get older I've passed the take-offence stage of life and am now eager to get as much truthful feedback as possible and I found that even though they were paid, the betas didn't spare my feelings. It's been a great experience.

I think I'm up for a paid editor now, I have one in mind, but any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

I finished the third draft of my manuscript and recruited a few beta readers, and I've run into a super weird thing. All of the women so far have liked my MC; they've used words like "brave", "competent", "inquisitive", and "take-no-shit" to describe her in universally positive ways. Meanwhile, all of the men have so far hated my MC. They use words like "aggressive", "angry", and "unsympathetic" and "unrealistic" to describe her.

I mean, I always knew this was a thing that happens, but like just in the back of my mind. I never expected to run face-first into it in my own work and I don't know how to handle it. I wasn't ready for feedback on my MC to be split along demographic lines like this. Commentary about the setting, and the plot, and the side characters has been pretty consistent, but the MC is crazy divisive and I have no idea why or what to do about it or if I should do anything about it.

 

It's always a good call to get different perspectives and critiques of your work, provided they can be in that middle ground of nice and vicious. They should be honest enough to point out deficiencies and faults, where some features are thin and so on, but they I think they should also remind you of where the story's good points lie, so you can expound on them and learn what to do for the next piece. I've been told that they ought to be fervent readers, but not writers themselves.

Immediately after college, I've had a lot of trust issues with potential proofreaders. I've had some people emphatically say they will read something and then fail to return any email...forever. I've had one particular individual steal a story of mine - word for word - under my nose after telling me he would get back to me as soon as he could with the proofreading. I haven't had nor have I sought any beta readers after that, except for the meager few who've looked at material on my DeviantArt page and provided some feedback.

But still, it's important - vital, if you really are interested in publication - to get others to read what you've written. Once you start doing a couple rounds of revisions and you see every word over and over, all the features begin to hemorrhage together and, curiously enough, it becomes even more difficult to see any mistake that's been made, either grammatically or in the narrative as a whole. A nice yet tough third party can assist with that.

 

Good, so it's not just me.

Life Pro Tip: If you never want to ever hear from someone again, have them beta read your unpublished manuscript. They'll vanish from your life like Homer Simpson into a shrubbery.

 

My personal experiences with Beta Readers is that the best ones i have worked with for fanfictions (i'm a fanfic writer) and this is all for free and in their own time. Generally can be a mixed variety, as some will say they are interested in doing it and then ghost you or once you send them your work they will never get back to you. Which is frustrating because while they aren't under contract, getting paid for it etc. It's still a discourtesy and just plain rude to do that to someone.

But the ones that were really committed, really passionate and wanted to help me grow, help my fics be better and could and did help me to spot my blind spots, improve myself and rewrite stuff etc. they were and are well worth it and friendships were formed and lasted even after they stopped being a beta reader for me.

I have also been a Beta Reader for other writers both fanfic and for book writers. And i always approached their work with a open mind, even for genres and stuff that weren't usually my forte. And i found that sometimes, i had to flag where i felt at least something wasn't working, that they had this or done that. And sometimes, you run into defensive attitudes or emotions etc. But i knew at the end of the day that i was there to give them feedback and it was for them to decide on what to do with it. I was just happy to help them out in my own time and for them to keep working on their work and press forward.

I think overall that, if you get a beta reader, consider what it is you want from them, is it help with grammar? With your plot? With your characters? Or just someone to just check through it first. Beta's are there to help you make your work better. Communicate with them, consider what advice they give. But of course beta's have the responsibility to offer advice in a way that the author will take in. So if there is no communication between the two, then it isn't going to work out.