I guess I can't speak to the romance genre, because I don't read much of it. But, somewhere, out there 'in the ether,' there are stories of "bad boy"/ rich, wealthy, smart, businessmen, doctors, lawyers, etc., who are very bad men. But the sweet handyman/gardener/working class guy is the real catch and becomes the love interest. I can't speak to how common the businessman/good-guy vs. gangster/bad-boy dichotomy is in romance fiction.
It depends on the definition of "bad boy". Are we talking an abuser or someone who breaks some of society's rules? As a teen, I was attracted to the boys who told jokes when we were supposed to be serious in church or school. The "good boys" who did not do this and who shook their heads at the kids who did made me wonder if they secretly judged me for making mistakes. In a way, the "good boys" were the jerks who wouldn't give me the time of day while the "bad boys" were the friendly, nice ones.
I think it's the romance of rebellion. I refer to romance in the original sense, the origins of the Romantic period. The Romantic period was characterized by rebellion against convention. The focus shifted away from the utilitarianism of the Industrial Revolution, an toward emotional expression and high adventure. There's a perception that the good boys are reliable but boring. So the bad boys seem more appealing, especially when life is easy. They seem more exciting, more fun, and of course Mum and Dad wouldn't approve. When times are tougher, girls are more likely to bond to reliable guys who won't disappear when the shit hits the blender, who will stay and defend them and help them no matter what. All this applies equally to boys with respect to the bad girls too, by the way.
Actually, you've hit on a very good way to make a 'bad' character attractive, if you're writing a story. Somebody who pokes fun at some silly, stiff ceremony, and does it with real humour, can't help but be captivating. Right? However, that character might provoke an entirely different reaction, if he started cracking jokes at the funeral of somebody you deeply loved. Or if he cracked jokes in church and you are deeply religious and easily upset by that sort of thing. So there you go. Bad, like beauty, is probably in the eye of the beholder?
Are you referring to the Byronic or proto-Byronic heroes here? ‘cause those types were like “the original bad boys” Transgression was a big thing, not just amidst the characters, but I’m thinking of Matthew G. Lewis and how he shocked the Brits with his lurid in-your-face masterpiece (or “masterpiece”) The Monk (1796). Later, Byron made the bad boy image work for him and his characters, apparently girls really liked him… Maybe with guys the sex aspect is stronger ‘cause from the evolutionary standpoint a non-submissive, non-nurturing female as a mate is less ideal (granted, we don’t live in caves anymore, well, most of us don’t) while, as a friend with benefits or a fling, a bad girl is appealing ‘cause, you know, you get to do kinky stuff with The Bad Girl -- something of an illusion, btw, the amount of vanilla “bad girls” I’ve come across... Anyway, with girls there’s the sex aspect as well, but there’s also the piss-off-Mom thing, and the general pull towards a dominant male, which seems like something that’s been going on since the dawn of time. Definitely. (I’ve been banned on two writing forums prior to this for being too “bad”, or was it too disturbing… and too liberal… and too Scandinavian/Nordic… something like that. Am I, really? Will you ban me if I refer to a woman as a girl by accident ‘cause that’s, you know, belittling and stuff)
@KaTrian - you were banned for saying "girl" instead of "woman"? Seriously, what kinda military site was that!? As for the question of the bad boy model - probably a combination of two things. The first being that rebellion is always seen as more exciting, more fun, more satisfying somehow. You'd rather skip class to go shopping than be the good student who sits in class and do your homework. You'd rather sneak off and kiss a boy than to tell your mother everything, usually. You'd rather eat the last piece of cake rather than leave it for your sister who hasn't had any yet. In some way, it's self-seeking and thrill-seeking. What we are not taught is that being sensible and good can be just as thrilling, but in different ways. The person who sat in class and did their homework will get the thrill and satisfaction of good grades and knowledge, and even fulfilment if it's knowledge they appreciated. The person who tells their mother everything probably has a wonderful relationship with their mother and might be saved from some "nails" they would've stepped on without the mother's advice. The person who leaves the last piece of cake gets the joy of seeing their sister enjoy it. It's different, but we're not taught to appreciate the rewards of being good. And the second factor is probably the imbalance that exists within relationships these days. Many single people are terrified of being single. Teenagers are taught that if you're single, you're not normal (and this is only amplified when you hit your 30s). If you're single you're undesired, unattractive, something's wrong with you. You look at movies and books and inevitably what changes a character and brings them out of their shells, brings back a ray of joy into their lives etc? It's always a romantic relationship, it's never found in a friendship. Now we extend this to the people who're already dating - we're so terrified of being single, many would date anyone who's attracted to them. But what if it's the wrong guy? You'd be stuck with him. And this is now probably the issue of commitment - we're a world that's terrified of commitment nowadays (just look at chick lits, how often do you find a character, a good friend figure, who always advises you to NEVER talk about marriage? Never let the guy know it's serious?) So we end up looking for relationships everywhere due to fear of being single, and then we're afraid of getting stuck with the wrong person probably because we were desperate in the first place. (if you'd accept nearly anyone, then it stands to reason that the risk of getting the wrong one is higher) People often fear that their partners will become boring over the years - what if I don't find them attractive anymore? What if I just don't feel the same? The famous excuses of "Oh I love you, but I'm not in love with you." (personally, I think that's a load of bull, sorry. If the person's not right for whatever reason, seriously, that's perfectly normal and ok, just say that. Don't give me that kinda crap about loving but not being in love. Now we're probably stumbling on everyone's varying definitions of love, in love, and everything else in between). This fear of boredom and lack of adventure with a steady partner, esp a steady and GOOD partner (remember that the thrills of being good are not celebrated or emphasised generally), probably contributed strongly to why the bad boy model is so celebrated. Bad boys are unpredictable, so there's never boredom and always adventure. Bad is thrilling, and celebrated, much more so than good. It somehow makes us feel special too if a bad boy wants us, because it's like we can change them, keep them, somehow they chose us and not just any other girl. Basically, the bad boy is nasty to everyone except you, so you're special. Whereas, what's so special about a nice guy being nice? He's supposed to be nice and will be nice to everyone. I think what one of my friends said many years ago is really very true. She said, "Girls think they're special because their boyfriend treats them like a princess but not anyone else. But a truly good man is one who treats everyone with kindness, and then treats you especially so." So yes, the special treatment idea is still there, but the measure is different, but we're often not taught that, nor is such a thing celebrated because good guys don't make good stories - there's no conflict lol
It was just one of the contributing factors, but I think that earned me a short-term ban, or maybe it was the mention of one of my and T’s stories that has a lesbian mc who’s also a sharpshooter. Suffice to say, this place is a safe haven in comparison to that really quite small, clique-ish forum… I like the point you made about appreciating goodness and kindness. Sure, it’s sometimes a little annoying when your man treats other women with special kindness (in comparison to how he’d treat another man), making you feel less special, but on the other hand, I’m not a dick towards other men for no reason either. I’d imagine it’s not unheard-of that some women want the bad boy ‘cause in chick lit they’re so admired and coveted. But in real life things often turn out to be something less romantic…
As rare as it is, I'm gonna disagree with you for once. Of course it depends a bit: if you're actually looking for more friends and you're not really into the girl anyway (i.e. just wanted someone to shag), being friendzoned is fine, but if you do want some action, as soon as a girl friendzones you, you drop her and move on because spending any more time with her would be a waste of time and if you want a fun, hot girl, you don't have time to waste because those get taken fast. Often girls want an "intellectual whore," but if the feeling isn't mutual, it's useless (and painful) to remain in that zone. A clear rejection is easier, quicker, and less humiliating: it stings just once and then you get to move on, but being friendzoned by a girl you've fallen for and watching from the sidelines as some douche (or several) gets to bang her, well, that's a "dying a thousand deaths"-kind of a situation. For the life of me, I don't get how it works, but it does: if you're an asshole (in a certain way), girls like you. Drop the act for a moment, take off your armor, and show some actual kindness and you get treated like a leper. Yes, hyperbole, but there's truth in there too. Mix arrogance with charm, good looks with a clear show of a strong sex drive, skill in cool thing X (being a guitarist never hurts) with wit, and the ability to humiliate other men in front of the ladies, and you've got a winning combination. From what I've observed, (some? Most?) women don't want a real bad boy, but, rather, an illusion of one. They want a nice guy who can pull off the bad boy -air when he wants to, bring some adventure into the monotony of everyday life. We're dealing with semantics here, but being bad, in the truest sense of the word, often scares people. Sure, some adventurous ladies will get a memorable one-nighter with a bad boy, but pretty soon she either has to move on or get sucked in the dirt with him. I've seen the latter happen a few times and it's not pretty ("oh, I know he does heroin, but I'll never even try it, I'm not interested." Yeah, sure). You can't change people if they don't want to change (hands up who here truly want to change who they are?). I guess I'm saying that if we're talking about one-nighters, bad boys can get a lot of action (win the battle), but if we're talking about actual relationships, it's the middleground chameleons who take the prize (win the war). In essence, they are are just as comfortable at the opera as they are in mountainous woods or in front of a pub, smashing a pint into some bad boy's face... although some women get scared of their man once they've seen him really hurting another person, so you should also be able to kick someone's ass prettily (yeah...). Imagine the frustration when that happens: show your "game face" once, essentially defending your and her well-being, and the woman never looks at you the same way again, there's always an undercurrent of fear (and not the good kind either). And then there are women who understand the realities of the darker side of humans, women who accept that a man can be a nice guy (most of the time) as well as an animal (when necessary). Guess which kind of women (many) men dream about?
Well, as far as friendzoning, it worked for my husband. We were friends for 3 years before we started actually dating. Of course, as soon as we started dating, we knew we'd get married.
Yeah, that sounds kosher. What I meant was rejection in a grander scale; a real bad boy is rejected by society too, so I’d rather be a friendzoned nice guy with a place in society than a real bad boy who got laid thrice, but is now excluded and shunned because he turned criminal and got caught. The nice guy is going to get laid (or picked for something more) sooner or later by someone who understand them, has things in common with them, likes to spend Sundays putting 10 000-piece jigsaw puzzles together with him.
I don't know how it went with you guys, but many guys (and I'd imagine girls) don't really enjoy watching their object of desire fucking others. Then again, if both have friendzoned each other, i.e. neither truly wants anything more than friendship from the relationship and then, a long while and several partners later, fall for each other, that's another matter since you willingly maintained your distance and may have even helped your ex-friend, now-lover hook up with somebody else without feeling bad about it. Or, alternatively, if neither had any romantic excursions during the friendzone-period, there would be no baggage either.
I'd say girls being attracted to "bad boys" has to do with evolution (I suppose being nice is a weakness when it comes to surviving), but I'm not an expert on that so I won't say it. Another possible reason: many girls are most attracted to the person they can't have and I can imagine why a rebel couldn't care less about a relationship, but then again I don't understand why that's the way it is. It can't be that hard to realize one girl in love won't change a rebel. Or maybe I'm just being sceptic since I'm not the kind of girl who likes relationships, or romance in general.
@KaTrian yeah, that's true too. It's just that most guys don't want to wait until they're 20-25 before they lose their virginity, and those who end up like that, may develop problems later on: when he's 30-40, with more life experience and confidence, he may start feeling like he missed out on a lot of "essential" fun when he wasn't in the game when he was younger and then start longing for something else than the one woman he's ever been with (or even if he's had just 2-3 partners). Especially if his woman was with several bad boys when she was younger, frolicking about while the nice guy was studying (*cough* wanking *cough*) at home, unwanted. The bad boys go to prison / die / start some troubled relationship with an equally bad girl / whatever, and the woman turns to the nice guy... yeah, he'd probably accept, finally seeing a chance to be with an actual woman, but there may be an undercurrent of bitterness in it. And then, I guess, there are guys who are perfectly happy with losing their virginity at 30 and being with the same woman for the rest of their lives and never so much as think about sex with other women. Guys who are something inbetween these two probably exist as well, I'm just not sure which guys are more common / rare.
This is not necessarily true. There have been studies about the evolutionary benefits of altruism. When one has good social skills and builds social "credit," that is beneficial for survival. Humans have traditionally lived in groups (If I recall correctly, the average number of people within the groups in primitive societies was somewhere around 130).
Also, there is the matter of familiarity. We seek our comfort zone, which almost always bears a resemblence to the environment we grew up in. If that environment was loaded with conflict or unruly behavior, ir outright abuse, guess what kind of relationships we tend to gravitate to.
