Feeling sad for the world today

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Lea`Brooks, Aug 8, 2014.

  1. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I want a discount for not belching after a meal. Wouldn't that be a brilliant system? Money off for manners?
     
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  2. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    I don't think it's putting anyone on a pedestal - nor hypocritical. The restaurant is rewarding what they consider good behavior. If people no longer feel awkward expressing their religious rituals (because otherwise they get glares from people who disagree with such "displays"), why should that be seen as hypocritical?

    There's a restaurant that uses sign language exclusively. Customers get a menu with the various signs on it - that's how they have to order. I suppose that's bad as well - how dare the deaf get special treatment, especially at that level? The nerve...
     
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  3. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Assad is right? He is such a bad leader his people are trying to overthrow him and he used chemical weapons on them which is against UN rules. How can you defend a man like that?
     
  4. Wyr

    Wyr Active Member

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    Okay, so why are most people assuming the worst? That those who pray before meals in these restaurants are doing so because they feel entitled or greedy or arrogant?

    Regardless of your faith or denomination, have any of you ever actually tried to pray, out loud, in a public place? People stare. They often whisper. Some of the more rude ones give dirty looks or laugh. I seriously doubt that most of them have a problem with your religion (assuming they can even tell which one you are just from the prayer,) they just think you are downright weird for making such a public display of your faith, like it makes you some sort of religious fanatic or something. Like I mentioned before, when I was a kid my grandma led grace before every meal we had with her, private or public, but these days she can't stand the way she is singled out for it. The majority of people don't intend to be cruel about it, but it doesn't make it any less embarrassing when people gape or the kid at the next table loudly asks their parents what we are doing.

    As I stated before, without speaking to them, I have no possible way of knowing what the owners originally intended when they initiated these discounts. The only information that I have to go off of is the single, short line of text that Lea`Brooks wrote in her first post. From that small amount of information I can't make any sort of informed conclusion, so I choose to see it as a positive thing. Maybe the owners weren't trying to give preference at all. It's just as possible that they are simply making a statement that it's okay to pray in public, that people shouldn't have to feel embarrassed about it, that they are welcomed to do so and not feel like some sort of freak.

    In the end, a few percent off of a meal seems like an awfully small thing in the grand scheme of things. I, personally, am a big fan of live and let live, so if a shop owner wants to give a discount for praying? That's cool. They want to give a discount to anyone who can quote the Quran, or Irish people on St. Patrick's Day, or left-handed people on the second Tuesday of each month? More power to them. :D
     
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  5. Lea`Brooks

    Lea`Brooks Contributor Contributor

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    The deaf restaurant, which I've heard a great deal about, has no relevance to this conversation. They aren't providing discounts to people for using sign language, nor are they saying that deaf people are better than hearing people. I actually applaud this restaurant, because it's encouraging people to embrace those with a physical disability, and attempting to prove that just because they are hard of hearing, they are just as capable as those who CAN hear. The two scenarios are in no way the same, and I'm actually surprised you think they are.

    You are entitled to think it's not putting people on a pedestal -- but I disagree. Your opinion isn't better than mine, and mine isn't better than yours. I don't think there is anything wrong with praying in public, and I don't think people should be viewed as weird for doing so. But I disagree with rewarding any religion for any religious act in a business setting. That's just my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. :)
     
  6. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Mr. Rodgers once said this, long ago. When you ever see something scary on TV, look for the people who are doing what they can to help those in need. Wars, diseases, natural weather storms, and discrimination do happen, but remember that the world is not always like this. Sometimes it takes a generation or two for the change to finally come, but they do come.

    Think of it. Seventy-three years ago, Europe was in its third year of the Second World War and Hitler was waging genocide. America was telling black people to sit in the back of the bus and eat at specific restaurants. Nearly 100 years ago, the Spanish flu was running rampant.

    Don't worry, this won't last forever. :)
     
  7. Lea`Brooks

    Lea`Brooks Contributor Contributor

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    That's a very nice way to look at it, thank you. :)

    For the longest time, I felt so helpless. I've always wanted to do good in the world. After Hurricane Katrina, I almost joined the National Guard. I just wanted to be there, helping people that need it the most. If something catastrophic ever happens in my life (i.e. me and my bf break up and I have to move back to horrible Illinois), I'd probably seriously consider joining. They'd kick my ass, but I think it'd be well worth it. :p
     
  8. prettyprettyprettygood

    prettyprettyprettygood Active Member

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    ""Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping.” It's so true, and I'm forever grateful that those better, braver people than me exist. I'm finding the news especially difficult at the moment for entirely selfish reasons - my dad travels to some of the currently troubled areas for work, and he refuses to retire or slow down - but it's the wonderful things, big and small, that people do to come together in crises that gives me a bit of faith.

    PS: I'm an atheist (actually, I believe I may be an 'apatheist') but I'd totally pray for a discount on my dinner. :p
     
  9. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    It's doing something special for a select group. Nothing different.

    You can have your opinion - never said you couldn't. I find it funny (in a sad way) that the minute religious folks get any kind of a break it's putting them on a pedestal, or that by accepting it they're being hypocritical. And then people wonder why folks don't like to pray in public...
     
  10. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    I don't get it, whose financing the discount for the praying customers? The other diners? The employees? Or the owner?

    I'm assuming it's the owner, in which case, it's not really any different from the owner taking money out of his own pocket and giving it to the praying diners....except wait, he's not being taxed on that loss of revenue.... So in a way maybe I (the taxpayer) am bring screwed???
     
  11. Lea`Brooks

    Lea`Brooks Contributor Contributor

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    It's not doing something special, it's doing something different. Again, no one is being offered a discount in this deaf restaurant. It's simply an educational restaurant. If someone were to open a religious restaurant, where the menu is based off of some God or another, and they have to order in a special way, nothing wrong with that. It's different, not special.

    Special would be offering deaf people a discount because they had the courage to go out in public, risking an encounter with judgmental people who think they're stupid because they can't hear.

    When you say "religious folks," you don't really mean "religious" folks. You mean Christian folks. Because they are the only form of religion getting any kind of "break" here. You don't see atheists getting "breaks." You don't see Wiccans or Pagans or Muslims getting "breaks." Wiccans get fired from jobs for being Wiccan. (http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Wiccan-Sues-Bath--Body-Works-Over-Halloween-Trip-70196177.html) Atheists get forcibly baptized at their schools. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/20/atheists-surprise-baptism-virginia-tech_n_5000240.html) Muslims get ejected from public buildings for being Muslim. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/19/amina-fahad-tirmizi-empire-state-building_n_4993225.html) Pagans can't even open churches. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/19/pagan-seekers-temple-arkansas_n_5511213.html)

    But Christianity is allowed to have the Ten Commandments on government property. They have churches on every corner. They are lucky that they pray in public and only get weird looks, even though it says in the Bible that a Christian shouldn't pray in public... They get to override the law because it goes against their "religious beliefs."

    In this case, as it turns out, the restaurant owner gave a discount to any person who took a moment to be thankful for their meal, regardless of their religion. So I find that less horrible than giving a discount to people who "prayed," as the first article I read described it.

    But I'm sick of seeing "Freedom of Religion" only apply to those that are Christian -- and that seems to be the case more than not these days.
     
  12. Wyr

    Wyr Active Member

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    Praying is not exclusive to Christians. And the general reaction to praying in public is negative, regardless of faith.

    I have to ask now that you've clarified somewhat, did the first article you read specifically mention it was Christians praying? Or did you just assume that they are the ones being referred to? It's frustrating when the news reports something in a biased manner just to elicit outrage and fuel their ratings/sales.
     
  13. Robert_S

    Robert_S Senior Member

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    You're mixing up what I said, or perhaps I wasn't clear.

    The main discussion is people getting a discount because they pray before feeding. I said if they take advantage of this discount, it's arrogant and self-entitled. They can pray if they want and the owner can give a discount to them if they want, but I'll call them hypocrites for their arrogance and greed (if they can afford to pay full price) because they feel entitled to bring their god in as an excuse to pay less than those who don't share their beliefs in an imaginary extra-planar being.
     
  14. Robert_S

    Robert_S Senior Member

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    Quite likely because if the state or federal govt isn't getting enough revenue, they aren't going after business or churches for it.

    In my state, a major corp hasn't paid state taxes for at least 7 years, legally. So who has to make up the difference? The citizens, mostly the middle class.
     
  15. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    No, I mean what I say and don't really need anyone mis-translating for me. But if you want to vent on Christians, well, that seems to be in vogue nowadays. I mean, they're ALL terrible, terrible people, so presumptuous and hypocritical...
     
  16. Wyr

    Wyr Active Member

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    Sorry, I think I'm still confused. Is it people in general accepting discounts that you take issue with or just people accepting discounts because of religious reasons that upsets you?

    (For clarity, I do mean all religions, not just Christianity.)
     
  17. Lea`Brooks

    Lea`Brooks Contributor Contributor

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    I wasn't mistranslations what you said. I was blatantly correcting you, because you're wrong. :)

    Religious folks don't get breaks. Christian folks get breaks. After all my searching, the only discrimination against Christians that I could find is that they haven't been allowed to pray in school or discriminate against gay people.. But being forced to make a cake for a gay couple or not being allowed to teach creationism in school isn't discrimination. It's just... logic.

    I may have said Christians in the broad term, but that's by no means what I meant. My entire family is Christian, and I was raised Christian, so I know there are good Christian people, just as there are bad people of other or no religion. I took the shorter path by not adding "some" in front of every Christian I used, and for that, I apologize.
     
  18. Lea`Brooks

    Lea`Brooks Contributor Contributor

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    Yes, that's what it said. The receipt said it offered a "praying in public" so the article strictly focused on Christians. But the owner of the restaurant recently released a statement clarifying what she did.

    The owner claims that she simply appreciated people who paused to appreciate the food they had. But many people believe she is lying to keep herself out of trouble. I don't really know what I believe at this point, but if that was her true intention, to just reward the thankful, I'm embarrassed for being angry. But if she was just trying to reward the religious, then I'm thankful she's stopped the discount program.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
  19. Lea`Brooks

    Lea`Brooks Contributor Contributor

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    Also, just to add.... The reason the owner of the restaurant stopped issuing the discount is because it is illegal, and she was threatened with legal action. They said the owner was offering favoritism to those of religion, and thus discriminating against the non-religious.

    So.. Whether or not you agree, by law, what she did was wrong.
     
  20. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    OMG. How could I be so ignorant!?! Of course you're RIGHT!!!!! mea culpa - oh, sorry, that's religious talk, isn't it? Oh, and this was called "sarcasm".

    Religious folks do get breaks. Just ask employers when they give time away from the job for daily prayers several times a day, when standard uniforms get "adjusted" for religious clothing, when some employees don't have to work with pork, yada yada yada.

    Like I said - I say what I mean. It doesn't need "correcting" by you.
     
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  21. Lea`Brooks

    Lea`Brooks Contributor Contributor

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    That's not "catching a break," unfortunately. That's the law. There's a big difference.

    Catching a break is getting special treatment for being religious, like getting discounts at restaurants.

    And please, don't misunderstand me. I'm not against religion, as your sarcasm talk implied. I'm religious myself. I just believe in equality for everyone, religious or not.
     
  22. Robert_S

    Robert_S Senior Member

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    Why should a discount be exclusive to them (people who believe)? As I said, the owner has the right to give it and the customers have the right to accept it, but having a right doesn't mean your nose is clean on this. As I said, I believe the bible does talk about avarice and pride as being bad, in fact two of the deadly sins. This "gift" is refused to others because they don't believe as the owner and recipient. And when you get christians or muslims talking about how great god is, when religion has some of the bloodiest history on record, I think religion is testament to human arrogance.

    We can go on and on, such as the story of Satan, Lot's wife, the man who slew his daughter as an oath because she was the first one to greet him, etc, etc, etc.

    I think religious people are too arrogant by and large, especially considering how horrific is their text.
     
  23. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    Not all of it. Businesses do not have to allow workers to leave their stations to pray; hell, they aren't even required to let them go to the bathroom except during designated break periods. A lot of things businesses do are not required by law - it may be SOP, but it's not The Law.
     
  24. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    As I understand it, these things are "reasonable accommodations" that make it possible for the people in question to work at all. And I doubt that it very often results in the employee profiting--for example, I doubt that the employees who get the prayer breaks are paid for those breaks.

    I suspect that an employee with a health problem that required more frequent (unpaid) bathroom breaks could also get that reasonable accommodation, assuming that their job wasn't one that inherently couldn't support the breaks. (For example, someone who does individual piecework could reasonably take extra breaks and either get slightly less pay or work slightly longer hours. That wouldn't work for someone on an assembly line. But if an employer offered both sorts of jobs, it might be a reasonable accommodation to require the employer to transfer the employee from assembly line to individual piecework.)

    The Christians who eat in that restaurant would still be able to eat in the restaurant if they didn't get a discount for praying. If they were unable to eat if they were forbidden to pray, then I wouldn't be surprised if it were illegal to forbid them to pray.
     
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  25. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    They get paid for them the same way people get paid for their coffee breaks, the same way people get paid when they go to the bathroom off-break. Reasonable accommodation does not apply to religious beliefs - it only applies to those with disabilities.
     

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