1. disasterspark

    disasterspark Active Member

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    Fingerprints, how important are they?

    Discussion in 'Research' started by disasterspark, Dec 28, 2018.

    MC and his friends are a group of rebel/criminals trying to leave a country ruled by a dystopian government. They all wear regular clothes but with a "criminal" twist where they carry weapons, ammo, and wear stuff that dodges the mass surveillance (special sunglasses and earpieces that jam cameras and stuff when they talk, allowing them to be more private.)

    I think it would be pretty cool that most of them wear fingerless gloves. But in a realistic sense I'm not entirely sure. If any of you are familiar with the PAYDAY series, almost all of the heisters wear full gloves for the same reason. So they don't leave fingerprints behind and get caught by police, and that takes place around the present, I think from 2011 to 2018.

    This takes place about a century after. So maybe the technology could have improved somehow where they don't leave fingerprints behind.
     
  2. Shenanigator

    Shenanigator Has the Vocabulary of a Well-Educated Sailor. Contributor

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    Some autoimmune conditions can cause the person to lose their fingerprints over time. I have one of those autoimmune conditions, and my understanding is that while I won't lose them completely, the ridges will become less pronounced and my prints will become much more difficult to read over time.

    So, it follows that someone could isolate the component of the virus or gene mutation or whatever causes them to fade (I've never checked because there are bigger symptoms to worry about). Then the criminals could ingest or inject the "antidote" to fingerprints. Or they could just go old school and sandpaper them off like in old movies.
     
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  3. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    Fingerprint identification is a flawed technology to begin with. A couple of the most blatant examples is with Shirley McKie and Brandon Mayfeild.
     
  4. disasterspark

    disasterspark Active Member

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    As a little followup question. I know there's a registration, but what about first time offenders? If I just grabbed a gun, walked outside during the dead of night where everyone's asleep so no witnesses, and shot the first person I saw before dropping the gun and running back to my house to type this, how would the police know it's my fingerprints on the gun if I'm not "registered" so to speak.
     
  5. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    Well, if they don't have your fingerprints on file, then no, they wouldn't know. In current society, most police forces usually aren't allowed to arbitrarily take your fingerprints, either. Even if you're fingerprints were taken then they may not be on file or may not be available to be used as evidence depending on how or why they were taken. My finger prints are on file in the US with the FBI and Border Patrol, but apparently other law enforcement agencies aren't privy these files without special permission (at least according to a Border Patrol agent and an immigration lawyer). But your society is a dystopia, so they may have lost those rights a long time ago and surrendering fingerprints may be something that happens on a regular basis.
     
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  6. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

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    They wouldn't, but if they found other information connecting you to the crime, the fingerprints on the gun would be a pretty clear link. Also, you don't have to be a criminal to have your fingerprints on file. I've been fingerprinted for the records at least three times, upon joining the military, when I got my access, and later on when I went to work for an SEC regulated company (brokerage house). Never been arrested, but I'm on file.

    One way to avoid leaving prints is to put a layer of superglue on your fingertips. You'll lose a little bit of traction (that's what fingerprints are for), but the glue covers over both the ridges and the oils that make up the print itself.

    Final thought: Is your work visual (graphic novel, video game, etc) or just words on paper? If it's the latter, I'd just omit the description of fingerless gloves as people aren't going to think too much about the characters' exact appearances beyond the initial introduction.
     
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  7. disasterspark

    disasterspark Active Member

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    All of my characters wear full-fingered gloves almost all of the time. It's a comic book.

    Part of the plot is that the main characters are all criminals who live underground. Since the dystopian government wants them imprisoned or dead for their crimes. The MC believes they all need to escape. But maybe the government won't let them leave because they must pay for their crimes. So they push for mass-surveillance and other things in an effort to find them.
     
  8. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    I'm assuming, though, that before they were criminals, they were citizens. Maybe they were disgruntled citizens and not very good ones, but probably still of the kind that would give their prints if it meant they could get a drivers license, graduate from school, shop at a grocery store, etc. Seeing as it sounds like your characters group is a reaction to this government, it might be a good idea to define exactly what this government is, what it's powers are, and what tools it has at it's disposal, so you know how your characters will be able to react and avoids plot holes in what The Man can and can't do to find them.
     
  9. surrealscenes

    surrealscenes Senior Member

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    They could work with chemicals or in rough labor, both removing fingerprints.

    Contrary to popular belief, most criminals are 'caught' by their actions and reactions. DNA & fingerprints, in the U.S., are both technically circumstantial evidence. Most will plea when confronted with one or the other, or a lie legally told by the police.
    If someone were to be shot dead out front in the middle of the night-
    The police would go door to door asking questions. Half of what they are looking for is answers and the other half is reactions and tell-tale signs.
    So let's say you ran outside, shot a random, dropped the gun, and ran back inside. Let's also say some of the neighbors were woken by it and called the police and they respond. Let's also say they decide to go door to door right then.
    How will you respond when the ring? Will you take time getting to the door and pretend they woke you? They know what puffy sleep eyes look like...They know most others woke when it happened...How will you keep your face from flushing when you lie?..etc...etc...
    They will also probably smell the powders on you when you open the door. How will you do away with that? If it was close you may have blood on you.
    If they hit a wall, they may start asking for prints to 'eliminate' suspects. If they suspect you of that crime, they may ask you to allow them to spray a chemical that detects powder residue. If you refuse either, you are most likely guilty in their eyes. If they want your prints they will get your prints- wait for you to go to the store and get prints off the outside of your car, get prints from your trash, etc.
    You will most likely leave tell-tale signs in their minds. They will most likely end up coming back to you. Over time you will probably fold in some way and give yourself up.

    Remember, it takes many baby steps and some time to solve most crimes. But then again, most criminals are in crime for a reason and that reason makes them unstable and gives them away...drugs, women, kids, whatever. It drives them forward and most have no concept of money, so saving usually doesn't enter the equation. Just do more to bring in more money.
     
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  10. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    'Where's Bobby!'

    'Oh, y'know he won't come robbing and shooting because he mislaid his fingerless mittens...'

    'Asshole.'

    'And we can't be the "fingerless mitten gang" without the trademark.'

    'Fuckin A'

    'yeah...'
     
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  11. Darius Marley

    Darius Marley Member

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    Speaking of dystopian governments, check out what's going on in China with biometric scans, namely in the form of real-time facial recognition, and even... are you ready for this one... algos that can identify an individual by his/her walk! Yes, I wrote walk. As in gait. Stride. Steps. Swagger, even.

    Fingerprints will be irrelevant very soon. I recently registered for a permit in Shanghai, and the cops simply pointed what looked like a small webcam at my face for an ID check. All of my info scrolled onto the screen within seconds. Scary as shit, but kinda cool at the same time.
     
  12. surrealscenes

    surrealscenes Senior Member

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    Private companies in the U.S. have used this for decades. Casinos were among the first to adopt and they are the ones that proved it and made/make it better each year. Our government doesn't have the money or resource to roll it out wholesale, not to mention the ACLU, etc. One of the biggest hindrances to federal crime solving is the fact that a great number of local law enforcement agencies don't even have modern computers. When the people have no, or little voice, you can force what you want upon them. Here we need to scare people into accepting...or convince them of the convenience of having it (it will make you safer....only criminals would be against it, you aren't a criminal are you?
     
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  13. Shenanigator

    Shenanigator Has the Vocabulary of a Well-Educated Sailor. Contributor

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    Count me as another person who's been fingerprinted many times despite never having been arrested. I've been bonded for multiple employers and also had to get printed when I changed my name, got new ID, and did my mom's probate. I think I had to give fingerprints when I opened a bank account somewhere, too. ETA: Also, any time you have a document notarized. So, in modern society in the US they're on record somewhere.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  14. Malisky

    Malisky Malkatorean Contributor

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    I agree with Iain on this one. It's very important not to leave something as unique as your fingerprint behind. It is a good lead and if the cops figure you out and want to bust your ass, they will figure out a way to do so. They got a whole crew specializing in stuff such as these. Apart from them there is the justice department. They are capable of framing innocent people for far less important crimes, do you think they will fail framing the perpetrators? :p
    Just glue them fingertips!
     
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  15. EightyD

    EightyD Member

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    The topic of our currently flawed technology has been touched already, but I would like to add that fingerprints are only collected on completely smooth, flat non-porous surfaces like glass and some metals. They're also often useless and smudged.
    A glove could be created to cover the fingers and act as a second skin, but leave dots (or whatever) instead of fingerprints.
     
  16. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

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    [​IMG]
    Okay, that's not fair (but they are considerably smaller than standard Trojans sold in the USA). Rubber fingertips, used by people who deal with lots of paper, could be slipped on before the action starts:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Matt E

    Matt E Ruler of the planet Omicron Persei 8 Contributor

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    What would the point of wearing fingerless gloves be? If I were a rebel living in a dystopian future I’d be beyond paranoid.
     
  18. Fallow

    Fallow Banned

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    A balm that swells the fingerprint swirls in random ways or makes them temporarily smooth.

    Or, a substance that causes any fingerprint oil left behind to run, blurring them after a short period.
     
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  19. Jenissej

    Jenissej Professional Lurker Supporter Contributor

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    On the note of usefulness and trustworthiness of fingerprint identification:

    The way fingerprint identification is done is they are being checked for markers, ie distinct patterns in the friction ridges. Only a fraction (9 -24 distinct locations) of available markers on a fingerprint will be checked, however, partly also to make partial fingerprints more useful for identification. If all checked markers on two fingerprints match, the chances of two people having the exact same type of friction ridge formation in the exact same location are so extremely low that they are assumed to be unique. In the case of Brandon Mayfield, that was what happened. After his prints were checked for more markers than required by law, they were found distinct.

    In a future dystopian society, fingerprint identification through visual comparison could be aided by intelligent systems and superior computational power, making it much more reliable than it is today.

    It's also important to know that fingerprints can be taken from virtually any surface. The classic method of dusting and tape only works on smooth, nonporous surfaces, yes, but there are many other ways to do that including imaging through chemical processes, electric currents, spectroscopy.

    A very interesting and currently lesser known fact is that the patterns aren't the only source of information in a print. This science is till in developing but it's already possible to analyze the chemical composition of the sweat and gain information about the individual from them, such as sex and age.

    Since it's the sweat from the glands that leaves the prints behind and the friction ridges that form the patterns, I'd remove either of them. Maybe your characters chemically removed them or use substances to clog or dry out the secretion glands. (Some skin conditions can also do that. I have a congenital condition that leaves my fingertips so dry I barely leave any prints.)

    Long story short: the safest way for your characters to not leave prints is either to have none or to wear some kind of gloves.
     

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