Forgiveness.

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by Shbooblie, Apr 3, 2015.

  1. Sundowner

    Sundowner Active Member

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    I find it kinda funny, I'm also writing a book best summed up as what you described, non-magical vampires.
    I think if I gave the average person a description of my protagonist and my antagonist, I'm almost sure they would root for the antagonist and condemn the protagonist, though I'm also sure if they read the story they'd retract that judgement. But that's what I love writing about, moral ambiguity.
    Have you ever seen Shiki? A part of it kind of reminds me of your story. One of the protagonist's best friends becomes a vampire, and then said friend is forced to kill the protagonist by order of the higher-up vampires. He doesn't want to, but in the end he's forced to, and does it. I can't hate the guy though, he really didn't want to do it.
     
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  2. Shbooblie

    Shbooblie Senior Member

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    Ahh your idea sounds really interesting, I would definitely be up for reading through your work if you ever need a second pair of eyes and yeah, gotta love a bit of moral ambiguity!

    I've never seen Shiki before, I'll have to give it a watch sometime :)
     
  3. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Sure, it's not actual sex, because it's a metaphor for sex. But he is invading another living being's most fundamental boundaries, on the claim (edited to add: bogus, invalid claim) that he has some "need" that he couldn't control. So it's also a metaphor for rape. There's no difference for me. Edited to add: So I have no forgiveness for the character.
     
  4. Sundowner

    Sundowner Active Member

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    I'm curious, does the vampire dude have an impulse to drink?
    My vampires sorta enter a trance when they're starving. Hard to describe, it's like losing your sense of judgement or rational. Not quite feral or zombie-like, they just forget what's what. Does yours act like that, or does he go in to her bedroom fully aware of what he's going to do?
     
  5. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    Just to throw in more PoVs (but not to discredit anyone else's), to me, your scenario is analoguous to cutting someone up in their sleep by a person who has a compulsion to do, well, that. Granted, no one has cut me up in my sleep (or when drugged), but, to me, someone attacking me physically is different from the humiliation of sexual violence. I guess I tend to see rape as something really quite unique, which is why someone e.g. calling violating their privacy "rape" makes me raise my eyebrows. However, even rape can be forgiven. I wouldn't, don't, and won't, but I have read of people actually doing that (and actual rapists have gotten second chances in vampire fiction before, e.g. Angel and Spike in Buffy the Vampire Slayer). It's realistic, but it's not something everyone can get behind -- which seems to be the "problem" with your scenario @Shbooblie. But not everyone has to get behind it, not everyone has to accept it.

    I can sympathize with your concerns, having actually asked here views on a couple of controversial characters and scenarios myself. These opinions are valuable and I have appreciated every single one, but it would've been impossible for me to please everybody, so I've concluded that in the end, after all's said and done, it's often best to write what you think is the right thing as you're the one who knows the characters the best.
     
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  6. Shbooblie

    Shbooblie Senior Member

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    Fair point @ ChickenFreak. It's not intended as a metaphor although that doesn't stop it being one if it is perceived that way. The secondary character's forgiveness isn't about pardoning his actions. It's about accepting what happened and trying to live with it on a personal level so I'd say with her situation it is within my characters capability to do so. I've been doing a bit of reading and I found this which I think is appropriate to the situation:
    'He is flawed because all human beings are flawed. He acted from limited beliefs and a skewed frame of reference because sometimes we all act from our limited beliefs and skewed frames of reference. When you were hurt, the other person was trying to have a need met. What do you think this need was and why did the person go about it in such a hurtful way?'

    Thanks @KaTrian. I understand I can't please everybody. I can only write what I know would be the correct option for my characters. As I've said for this character in question, forgiveness is not in the realms of impossibility. As you've said people have forgiven far worse.

     
  7. Shbooblie

    Shbooblie Senior Member

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    I'm still working out all the technicalities of the scene cause it's a tricky one, but basically hes had his supply cut off and when he gets hungry its like an itch that needs scratching. He gets really intense pains and his body starts to basically rot.
    I suppose he sort of loses his judgement in the way that if you were starving you'd grab the first edible thing you could lay your hands on but it's not the same as your characters trance state.

    He doesn't go into the bedroom with the intention of doing anything. The door is usually locked but on this night in question it's been left open. He ended up just going in to check on her, then that turns into stroking her forehead, which turns into climbing in bed and then he inhales as he takes a deep breath and the smell coupled with his starvation just makes him snap.
     
  8. Miss Lonelyhearts

    Miss Lonelyhearts Member

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    He would have to plead that he was insane at the time of biting, that he wasn't thinking clearly and that he was temporally insane (with lust or the urge for blood) and that once in that state can not be controlled easily. I think from this view point then forgiveness on her part may be easier. In order to forgive he must demonstrate his point of view and that she understands it. Once this understanding has taken and she is in fact put in his shoes would she feel the same? If so, and she would bite then she can forgive.
     
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