Formatting: Limit of Chapter Length, and Can your First Chapter Exclude your #1 Character?

That puzzles me. The reader can know things about Jade that Sarah does't know. How would letting the reader in spoil Sarah's plotline?

In any case, I'm concerned that you may be over-focusing on plot, and by doing so damaging character. Now, I tend to over-focus on character, and by doing so I think I damage plot. So I'm not saying that the balance is easy.

In the samples that you offered, I don't feel close to the characters. And the more you split focus, the harder it will be to get that closeness. I think that you're going to need to 'give' more to the reader. You're withholding information about Jade, for plot reasons. You're withholding your MC for a chapter, for plot reasons. For all I know, the distance from the other characters may be for plot reasons.

It's as if you're holding out a hand, pushing your reader away to a safe distance and dosing out information on a strict need to know basis. Imagine instead putting a welcoming arm around your reader's shoulders and drawing them into the story.

 

As I have said, the first chapter ends with a large section of story from the MC Sarah's perspective. Sarah will not be mentioned in the first sequence before that though, which is currently the majority of the chapter.

Of the characters in the first chapter (Damian shows up later), only Jade knows or cares about Sarah. She doesn't mention Sarah currently, though there is a vague reference to her, being that Sarah is one of Jade's friends which she does mention having. I don't think I want to have Jade mention Sarah as it doesn't particularly make sense to the plot line. I would rather keep Sarah's introduction in the first chapter.

 

Because I don't want people to know what's happening with Sarah, and knowing what's going on with Jade does help narrow it down (or could potentially mislead people), especially if I let the reader know everything Jade knows as she knows exactly what's happening with Sarah as soon as she sees it (she has known it was a possibility for a long time).
Jade and Sarah also interact a bunch, and I like the reader seeing some of that without knowing what's going on with Jade until a little later, and then we see their interactions in a slightly different light.
I'm not going to hold back with Jade for very long anyway.

That's possible. I do know these characters very well by this point, so it's possible I'm not providing enough character detail because I can easily read into everything while the audience can't. Plus, the simple fact of my amateur status.

I am not withholding my MC for a chapter. This thread was created because I have been considering doing that. It's not what I have written. I already corrected this before.
What do you mean by 'distance from the other characters'?

 

I'm not seeing the characters. There's bare dialogue and actions, and there's backstory, but there's no fully painted character in front of me. Now, there are countless ways to fix that, but it is a problem. And having several POV characters spreads each character thinner and makes it harder to solve that problem.

 

It's something I've been working on. I feel like some of my later scenes might be better in this regard.

 

Yeah, basically.

 

Confused. I asked if you could rephrase/clarify, and you said the above. Are you saying you're not going to rephrase/clarify?

 

There was supposed to be a "not' in there, as you sort of got at. The point I was trying to make was that if other characters are interesting then it shouldn't be boring to spend some time with them outside of some MC. If anything, it should make it easier to give them some attention, sympathy, add new sides you might not see yet in the other scenes, establish backstory that other character don't know yet so on. It divides attention a little but I would think it would benefit those supporting characters by not letting a single perspective MC dominate the story. And the MC would still get more than anyone else so I don't see any particularly likelihood of the MC losing out unless there are already weakness in how interesting or well-presented they are. It's been done plenty of times enough to sure that any problems are clearly not that hard to overcome. At worst, a bit more challenging.
Anyway, given the issue you raised about relating to or understanding the characters, perhaps that should be the focus. Present the characters in a more compelling way. More interesting, more detailed. Something. But, I don't think having multiple third-person perspective is the problem.

 

I still maintain you might best just keep writing and leave the problem of how you're going to start the story till later on.

I know everybody doesn't agree with this approach, but I think it has merit. The problems you are having will be easily solved, once you have perspective on the whole story.

You're not changing the events of the story itself, are you? Only the way it's being told. That's an important distinction to make. If you are thinking of changing what your characters actually do (behind the scenes) then that's a reason to halt now, and maybe rethink the beginning. But if you're only concerned about how best to relate the story's events, then I'd say just keep going.

 

It is certainly true that formatting, style and order in their more general or specifically nitpicky elements can be left somewhat, in a way key story concepts or foundations of your technique cannot.

 

I've always liked the creative writing concept of 'preliminary throat-clearing.' In other words, starting a story by making sounds, creating scenes and setting up backstory that turns out to be discardable, in the long run. It might be a necessary exercise to get you started (like clearing your throat before speaking) but it's not really part of what you eventually produce.

I would not waste a lot of time getting the throat-clearing perfected, or worrying about where it should be placed. If I find myself stuck doing that, I'll just move on to the speech.

 

Well, it's certainly possible to cook five different dishes for dinner. But if you can focus on just one, it's likely to be better than the average quality of the five.

 

Is there a good reason why you can't start right where the MC gets dragged into the main plot, and have the reader discover alongside the MC what's going on? Sometimes it can't happen, but there should be a reason for this. Because having the MC in the dark may also end up making him come off as useless or slow or the reader may lose patience with him. Imagine, things would need to be explained to the MC while the reader would groan and say "Yeah I know this already."

I don't think having multiple POV is a problem - but having multiple POVs all of them in Chapter 1 even before you get to the MC is a major issue, in my opinion. It's hard enough to get readers to care about your MC right off the bat, and you're presenting the reader with multiple characters none of whom are immediately important to the book? Get your readers invested in just one character first. Generate interest in side and other characters through the key POVs, and once that interest is well-established, then you can risk switching POV to that character. Until then, don't switch POVs.

To give an example, Brandon Sanderson did it like this in his debut: he introduced his MC Raodin in chapter 1 and within this chapter, you find out he's supposed to marry a girl called Serene (don't quote me on the names yeah?). You find out she's due to come to his country very soon, and that Raodin has also been stricken with a horrible disease and must be quarantined in Elantris. So naturally, you're thinking, oh crap what's the bride gonna do? Chapter 2, lo and behold, it's from Serene's POV. But now I'm interested in her predicament, so it's ok.

To add: in my own case (it's not published, ok, so it doesn't have to "prove" anything) - but, the way I did mine, I followed my MC right from the beginning through till end of Chapter 2. Beginning of Chapter 3 I start with my villain's POV, and it only lasts a page and a half before it goes back to my MC, and then I finish with my villain's POV again for the final page. Then it's my MC through till Chapter 5. By this point, I'd established a love interest that's only been spoken about, and then you witness my MC and the love interest's first meeting together, which I hope piques the readers' interest. Beginning of Chapter 5, I begin with the love interest's POV.

But these are never "new" characters unknown to the reader. Always there's context, and the reader should - assuming I've done it correctly - already be interested in these characters before coming into their heads. Also, these are all major characters integral to the main plot.

The only reason why I have 2 minor POVs is because I literally could not think of any other way of conveying that aspect of the story to the reader without just making it convoluted and complicated. And I try to go by the principle of "Keep it simple." I saw no reason to over-complicate matters just to avoid having an extra POV that only lasts a few paragraphs anyway. I have my doubts about this, and if beta readers should comment on them being distracting, then I'd find some other way. But these minor POVs are also not from new characters - they are both well-established characters by the time their POVs emerge.

 

I'm thinking more about what I was saying about withholding information from the reader, because I keep doing that. Part of what I'm doing right now (my should-be-forbidden Draft 2 work before Draft 1 is done) is going through and trying to FORCE myself to give the reader information, dammit! I'm behaving as if the whole value of the plot is secrecy, and it's really not.

@DK3654, just how bad would it be to give more away? What if we knew that Jade had magic, within a paragraph or three? What if you helped the reader to see those signs in Sarah (I'm sort of assuming that's what you're leading up to) and let them worry about the issues with Jade, instead of keeping all that opaque?

It's easy for me to ask you those questions. When I try to get myself to reveal similarly important stuff early, my brain sputters, "But... But... Noooooo!"

But I think it's necessary. Well, I'm sure it's necessary for me; I think it's necessary for you.

I seem to remember reading an article about unnecessary secrecy or unnecessary suspense and why it's a bad idea. I wish I'd bookmarked it.

 

Yes. Sarah does not just get circumstantially involved, she herself is changing and it's bringing her into this. I want to show that change happening. I want the reader to see the before, the during and the after. The reader will also discover somethings alongside the MC, and somethings beforehand through Jade and Alex and their stories.

*her
Things will progress without the MC. Her journey is all about joining in. The other characters make do without them, they aren't all sitting around trying to keep her up to date.

Well, Damian doesn't show up in chapter 1, but anyway...

'None of whom are immediately important to the book' -I wouldn't say that at all.

The idea was the first sequence isn't supposed to be too long, jumps between a couple characters and is focused more on plot, so we're not investing too much yet. We switch to Sarah, focus on her character and then link her to the previous characters. And now our investment is tied up between them.
Granted, that might not work. But that was the plan basically.
Your principle of introducing characters somewhat before including their POV could be helpful. I'll keep that in mind. I do have an example of that with the switch between the throwaway mundane perspective and Ashling in my current version describing all three of Ashling, Alex and Stewart before switching, but I am leaning increasingly towards removing that throwaway perspective.

 

Well the point of the previous character scenes before the MC seems to be establishing a sort of backstory and context that occurs before the MC is involved. And that makes sense to me. Having the MC always be the centre-point with all the ominous "they"s trying to get them or everyone important being their love interest is a recurring cliche in exactly this sort of story. But, the MC could definitely be the start if that's necessary and a good plot could be found.

 

Have you considered a subplot to give the characters something to do before the main plot brings them together?

 

I have one.
Sarah has a whole plotline dealing with this change happening to her, her trying to understand what the hell is happening, and how it affects her life. That plotline is interwoven with Jade's main plotline at the time, she is struggling with lacking a sense of meaning in her life, and she increasingly decides on trying to help Sarah as her purpose. Jade doesn't get too close at first though, but also provides the connection between Sarah and Alex, Ashling, Stewart and other important characters, which is key to when they actually come together.
EDIT: Jade providing this link BTW is why I wanted to start with Jade meeting Stewart's group as the particular scene. That way it's clear that what's going on with Alex is connected to Jade, and then I use the end of the first chapter to connect Sarah to Jade, and thereby they are all connected.

 

I am starting to think maybe I want to change how I start the story off altogether. There does seem to be a lot of concern over my first sequence, and the introduction of my MC is actually a bit cliched (it starts shortly after she wakes up and follows her morning routine) and is not ready to carry the story without the first sequence.

 

I meant, more, from the very beginning. Your first introduction of Sarah is waking up and hot shower and thinking about medication and arguing about muffins and commuting to work. That could all be fine as a wrapper around something more, something that's higher stakes. Maybe Sarah's applying for a job, maybe she's just been fired from a job, maybe she's being noncompliant with her medication and hiding it from her roommate.

 

Her mother died less than a week ago and she's worried about relapsing. The first chapter refers to this vaguely, as it is explained that something bad happened recently when we meet Sarah, and that's she worried more bad things will happen. I am considering maybe referring to it explicitly here, rather than waiting until the next scene with Sarah where I have it currently. Or at least placing a little more emphasis on it, that something is most definitely up.
EDIT: This whole thing with her mother's death feeds directly into the supernatural changes plotline. I like the way the focus can then change from being more about the death, and upcoming funeral, at first, but then switch to being more about the supernatural element as that builds up.

 

It's not much more than that before we do. Jade walks through an illusory wall and her irises turn deep red 'revealing her true nature', if you remember. And the first bit with Stewart and Ashling explicitly refers to magic and depicts Ashling getting visions, so we know what's up.

I'm not entirely sure what you're suggesting here. Could you elaborate?

 

Yes--why wait? Your first scene with Sarah is stripped of almost all information, to the extent that it doesn't seem to have a purpose.

 

Well, the purpose was to introduce the characters of Sarah and Emily, their dynamic, move on to how Sarah fares at work, then bring together their friend circle introducing the other three including the link to the first sequence, that Jade is one of the friends.
But I think you are probably right that I should make some explicit reference to the death and funeral. I did like the idea that it wasn't mentioned because Sarah is trying to pretend it didn't happen, but I could show that in other ways.

 

Let's imagine that your story starts with a bank robbery.

Let's imagine that you start with an ordinary day at the bank--the customers, the security guard getting to work, the coffee being made.

Then you cut to an ordinary day for the bank robbers--they get up, they shower, the drive out for lunch. No hint that they're bank robbers.

Then you go to the next day and the bank robbers drive to the bank. Still no hint. They walk in, and they produce a gun.

It could be argued that all that setup was for the purpose of making the reveal of the gun more exciting. Except, it doesn't make it more exciting. The reader got zero payoff from the security guard, the making of the coffee, the buying of the pizza. They were bored.

Plain, uneventful setup is rarely made worthwhile by later excitement. You instead need to make the readers absorbed and interested, to feel some stakes. Those stakes may be much smaller than the final stakes--maybe the security starts the novel terrified that he's going to get fired, and then the bank is robbed, and then that leads to the alien invasion. But he does need to be terrified that he's going to get fired, or freaked out that he just got his pocket picked and lost money he can't spare, or eagerly rehearsing the words he'll use to ask the pretty waitress out, or something. You need stakes.

It sounds like you're starting with an ordinary zero-stakes day for Jade, and an ordinary zero-stakes day for Sarah, and then an ordinary zero-stakes interaction between Jade and Sarah, and eventually you'll get around to the equivalent of one of them producing the gun.

But the problem is still the same--you need stakes. Maybe the stakes are that Sarah is so upset about her mother's death that she's failing to comply with her medication. Maybe she's already failed to comply and she got in trouble at work yesterday and she expects to get fired today and doesn't know how to tell Emily.

You need stakes.

And you probably need to get to the real stakes sooner. You could throw us some hint of the supernatural threat to Sarah right in the first scene, woven in with the shower and the muffins. And when we first see Jade walking along refusing to give us a hint of her magical nature, you could instead give us a strong hint to her magical nature, and then throw her into lunch with Sarah, and have her seeing the danger to Sarah, and have us travel into those worries with her.

We could see Jade's stress, and Sarah's dangerous ignorance, and be inside the story instead of being trapped outside and starved of information.