Hello, I have a story where one character is a teacher. There is enough POV from her that we know her first name, but most of the story takes place with her in a school setting, so I always just call her Ms. Surname, as even teachers address each other that way in front of students. I have two questions about this. 1) Is the period necessary after Ms, or can it be omitted? It's just plain awkward to type, especially since I tend to write on my phone and every period causes the editor to start a new sentence. 2) Is it tedious to hear Ms. Surname over and over again, even when the story has switched to her perspective (third person.) When her character is front and center, calling her Ms Surname sounds weird, but suddenly switching to a first name basis feels just as strange. Advice?
Not sure. Probably? Unrelated, but I haven't heard anyone use Ms. in years, but that's neither here not there. 2) Is it tedious to hear Ms. Surname over and over again, even when the story has switched to her perspective (third person.) When her character is front and center, calling her Ms Surname sounds weird, but suddenly switching to a first name basis feels just as strange. Tedious? Not if that's how the POV identifies with the character. It might be a bit weird when it switches to her perspective, but you tend to write with a bit of an omniscient slide that zooms and pulls when it wants to (in a good way), so in your case, if this story is like your others, I think the single name should probably remain consistent or your pullbacks will be especially jarring.
Really? How would you address a female teacher? I thought Ms. was far preferable to Miss. or Mrs. She's young and unmarried, but I was also under the impression that both married and single women used Ms specifically to be ambiguous.
Haha, no clue. Haven't been in grade/high school since the late 90s. No idea how the kids do it these days (which is why I say my opinion on this is neither here nor there). What I will say is that in the hospitality industry we address every woman as "miss" regardless of age or marital status. There's nothing a woman likes less than to be ma'am-ed... it makes them think of their grandmothers. I've made my living by calling women Miss... nothing like an old lady thanking you for calling her Miss. Again, this has nothing to do with anything, but the terms "Ms" and "ma'am" are galactic no-no's in my business, but that's probably because we have to work off assumptions when we address female guests, whereas kids in school can be prompted to whatever the teacher prefers to be called. Hasn't the term "Ms" been denigrated as being pejorative now because it singles a woman out for not being married? Like she needs a special term because she hasn't been claimed by a man and upgraded to "Mrs" status yet? Or she's too old to be a "Miss" and needs a special warning label because she hasn't been claimed yet (meaning there most be something wrong with her). Honestly, I have no idea.
I've always been taught/under the impression that "Ms" is the abbreviation of "Miss," like how "Mrs" is the abbreviation of "Missus" and "Mr" is "Mister."
When I was growing up, feminists used Ms. for both single and married women. I'm not sure about the protocol today. Is it even used anymore?
No--the whole point of Ms. is that it doesn't reveal whether a woman is married. It's the equivalent of Mr. Married and unmarried women are both Ms.
Right. Duh... I knew that! We still don't use it, though. I've been slapped (lightly on the arm) in my younger days more times than I can count for using it. Not as bad as ma'am, though. That will get you in deep shit fast when dealing with female guests.
Weird. What was the argument against it? And I have zero problem with 'ma'am'. It's the equivalent of 'sir' and communicates respect for an adult. I find 'miss' irritating. It's what you call children and thus feels disrespectful and offhand.
Returning to add: Now I see my objection to 'Miss'. 'Ma'am' and 'Sir' are equivalent. Neither of them care if the person addressed is married or unmarried. 'Miss' and 'Mister' and 'Ms' and 'Mrs' are equivalent. If someone behind a hospitality desk said, "Mister, would you like two room keys?" would that go over well and be regarded as better than, "Sir, would you like two room keys?" I'm thinking, no.
But the context is different. That's using the article as a replacement for a name that you don't know. I'm addressing a person of authority with a known name. "Mister Bond, would you like two room keys?" Sounds is completely correct. "Sir McCartney, would you like two room keys?" is only appropriate for literal knights.
My view is that the thread has diverged. When using a woman's name, if you don't know which title you prefer, it makes most sense to use Ms. But there was a discussion of using "Ma'am" as opposed to "Miss". In my view, if you would use "Sir" for a man, you should be using "Ma'am" for a woman. The other makes me imagine a view of women as nervous creatures determined to cling to eternal adolescence and prone to panic if they're regarded as adults. If it would be inappropriate to say, "Young man, would you like a key?" then IMO it's inappropriate to say, "Miss, would you like a key?" It should be "Sir/Ma'am, would you like a key?" That doesn't help people who are commanded by their employers to use the titles of eternal adolescence. But I firmly disagree with their employers.
In school, we generally used "Miss" and "Mrs." I remember one teacher who was cranky enough about it to insist upon "Ms." (She really was a bitch compared to the rest. I don't know why; I was in second grade or some shit. Draw your own conclusions.)
Okay, I see. Has anyone an opinion on with or without the period? Does Ms Surname teach a class, or does Ms. Surname?
Period. And I agree that I wouldn't want to be called Miss by someone serving me. It would feel patronizing/infantilizing. Ma'am is fine. And I and most of the women I work with go by Ms. We're in a professional setting: our marital status is irrelevant and we can't expect people to keep track of who is or isn't married.
I would imagine the "miss" instead of "ma'am" might be because "ma'am" is associated with an older woman, and some people have issues with their age. I can see someone offended by "ma'am" reacting in a "Who the hell are you calling old, you young whippersnapper?" I get called both "miss" and "ma'am", and I don't really have a preference for either. Professionally I'm on a first name basis will all my customers and vendors, but I'd agree with Bay that Ms. is more common in professional settings regardless of marital status.
I tend to want to forego the period, though it's my understanding that that's incorrect. I just don't like how it looks.
But would you call a married teacher "cranky" if she insisted on being called "Mrs"? Or an unmarried one if she objected to being called "Mrs"?
I ask because it doesn't seem that hard for kids to learn the preferred address. It's not as if the teacher gets to refer to the kids by number; if she can learn every kid's name, surely they can learn to refer to her correctly as well. I'm not suggesting that she throw heavy objects or use a nasty tone, and if she did, OK, that's cranky. But a simple, "Actually, it's Ms. Smith, not Miss" seems perfectly appropriate, even if she has to write it on the blackboard or repeat it a hundred times a day.
Married, it is proper to use Mrs. Widowed/Divorced Ms. How is this so hard to figure out? Miss is only correct if she is unwed/single. Ma'am is hit or miss, when it comes to respectfully addressing a woman, as some tend to like the note of it, while others absolutely abhor it. Usually elder women will see it as a sign of respect, while younger women find it to be in poor taste. They is complicated creatures that like to be addressed as they prefer. (Never hear a guy complain about being called Sir.)
Ms is proper for all. How is this so hard to figure out? ETA: To make it more clear? Miss = unmarried Mrs. = married Ms. = none of your damn business
