Stuck in plotting hell

I do like to plan my novel out because I find I do need something to follow. The problem is, I am never happy with what happens in the plot or feel my character is fleshed out enough or get bogged down in research so I never end up actually writing anything. I spent weeks working on my plan, then decided to change the ending, so had to change the middle. So weeks of planning that plot ended up being wasted because I then got another idea I liked better. Been planning this novel on and off for about two years. Now I'm in a muddle with it again.



So I thought of a new method. Cut my novel into smaller section so it doesn't feel too much to tackle, then plan out that section. Then write that section. Then plan out the next section, then write it. That way I'm not getting stuck in research and that way I can create a plan as I go along instead of wasting my time on writing out plots that I change later anyway.



I can't think of any other way to do it. I've tried writing without one and my manuscript was a mess and I never finished it because I wrote myself into a corner.



Anyone else suggest anything?

 

I can sympathise to some extent. Too much planning can lead to too little writing, or none at all.

Are you planning scene by scene? Do your scenes have a structure? Are you using any form of overall story structure?

Having an overall story structure, with a strong arch for your MC, could allow you to concentrate on just the first section (for example, the first act in a five act story structure). This could allow you to chop your novel up into manageable sections, and each section would be clearly defined with clear character/story goals to be met.

If a novel is two years in the planning, and not in the writing, it’s got to be worth trying something different.

 

It's really hard to get characters fleshed out in pre-writing. It's only when you really start writing and living in your characters skin that you get to know them, who they are, and how they'll react to situations in your story. I'm a huge proponent of planning and plotting, because I find it a huge help in actually finishing stories, but at most it should be a rough carved skeleton used lay a groundwork and hold up the skeleton of your actual writing. And sorta try to expose andy glaring plot holes before it becomes too cumbersome to try to write them out. Try writing out the basics of the plot in point form. This should take one half of a sheet of foolscap at most. Then separate those points into 3-5 (or however many appropriate) separate acts. For each act identify your your characters starting points and where they need to be when the next act starts. Then start writing, Keeping track and adding to your notes as you go along. Also, be flexible. Pretty much all of the best characters I've read and written happen pretty organically, and forcing them to adhere to a character sheet can stunt an otherwise great ... character.

 

This for sure.

 

I completely agree with @The Dapper Hooligan. It's useful to have those plot points before you to keep the writing momentum going (nothing worse than getting half-way through the book and thinking 'where do I go from here'. Even a brief description of each character trait can be useful, but flexibility is the key. You want your characters to grow and become real but in order to do that you have to give them the freedom to go in directions you hadn't anticipated. If that changes the story then in my experience it's usually for the better.

Best of luck.

 

Thanks guys. What is the best story structure to follow? Three act? Hero's Journey? Because I always seem to struggle to fit my plot into any of them. Beginning fine, middle fine, but it's towards the end that it all falls apart. Is there one that is really good, because there also seems to be different versions of each plot structure so any links to good ones would be helpful.
x

 

Meh. They're all pretty much the same to be honest.

 

I wish people would use the term "Character building" instead of "World building". I tried plotting as much as I could. I failed at every step.

I think people should use the "Snowflake method" more. I used it for Evergreen and now I have a full novel.

Write a one sentence blurb or idea, or something as simple as a line of dialog. Evergreen started with the idea that a girl had to stay away from the north side of the mountain. Ninety thousand words later... Just extrapolate and expand on your idea till you have a skeleton. You don't have to know every single plot beat or even the ending. Just have well drawn characters and exciting romance and tension.

 

Can I recommend John Yorke (Into the Woods) - a five act journey into story.

I would in no way presume to tell you that this is the best book/way etc. But I found it useful and got me thinking. It talks a lot about character flaws and motivation, their wants, desires and needs, and how that fits into the story structure.

 

Yeah, I've used the Snowflake method before but it didn't cover character that deeply.

Thanks I'll try Into the Woods.

 

But why are you changing the story over and over again? It doesn't sound like a problem of planning. Because you can have the perfect plan and still change the ending right at the end, and end up (sorry with the horrid repetition of "end") scrapping everything that came before anyway. It sounds like you may be getting a little distracted, like a jackal that sees something shiny. Ooh shiny! Shiny new idea, grab it! Ooh cool new story element, grab! Shiny new direction, grab! Shiny new idea, grab! Shiny shiny shiny!

Maybe what you need to consider is: do you need every shiny thing you currently have in your novel to tell your story? Shiny's great and all - even if every single element stands well on its own and might be an excellent idea, it doesn't mean they all go well together. There may be things that are just making the rest of the story too complicated as well.

What's the key problem to your plot? Because if you keep changing things over and over and over again, the likelihood is you haven't identified the real problem, or you have but haven't identified the solution. Because if you had the problem and solution both down, you wouldn't need to write it again from scratch.

If you've written this a few times, you'll know which elements are truly consistent - the bits that are the life and soul of the novel. You'll know which shiny elements you absolutely must keep, because those things would have remained throughout all your drafts no matter how much things have changed.

So keep those things and only those things. The rest of it - throw it up for grabs. Anything can be changed. Really try to pare it down to its essence. Get rid of anything and everything that doesn't make this story shine. That means even the good bits. Just because it's good alone doesn't mean it's good for the book. Resist shiny

Now, I wrote the above post with a few assumptions: that is you keep rewriting the same story over multiple drafts from scratch, and each time the draft is either slightly or actually drastically different. (You did say you changed the ending that resulted in such a deviation from the direction you've taken that you also had to change the middle - that sounds pretty drastic) If I've made erroneous assumptions, do correct me.

Otherwise, I write the above because I've been there. I wrote 6 drafts that I can count (not including all the other drafts that I don't count), all of which I've scrapped. All of which I wrote from scratch. All of which bears an entirely different plot. It's all the same book lol. At least 2 of those 6 drafts were completed at more than 80k words. I edit as I write but several of these drafts had been edited again from the beginning, rewritten, whole chapters chucked out etc. I finally got my 7th and final version earlier this year, after - let's see - 12 years of planning and writing It was, indeed, plotting hell (which is why your thread title resonated and got me reading lol). That's just what I've learnt through my process, and how I finally got my final draft. A first draft that's a final draft - and it's not even done - I'm still editing... Chapter 3 here I come! Sigh...

 

All of us will probably give you different answers, but I like the seven-point plot. I think it's from Algys Budrys, but I'm not certain of that.

A character. A setting. A problem. The character tries to solve the problem. And fails. And tries and fails again until they finally succeed. Followed by validation for the character and a chance for the reader to catch their breath again before putting the book down.

Nothing difficult. No 'the mentor's last advice to the protagonist must come on page 97' rules. Just the very basics of a story.

The best part is that you can make the story as long or short as you like by controlling the number of try/fail cycles. If it's too short, you add another cycle. If it's too long, you take one out. A short story might have one cycle, a novel might have a dozen.

 

I can only speak for myself, but to quickly explain my process when it comes to writing a story:

1. Get a basic idea. Kinda obvious. No idea, no story.

2. Start writing it. It doesn't matter if it's just the first paragraph, or the entire first chapter. But I start writing it immediately. Writing the whole story is going to take a long time, so there's plenty of time to work out all the details. Besides, as you say, the story tend to change over time anyway. I don't even care about the ending at this point. It's more about getting a good feeling for the story and characters. Setting up the plot is important, but the ending is irrelevant for now.

3. When I'm away from the computer, I think more about the overal plot, where the story can go from here, and how it's all going to end. But even so, I have several possible endings in mind. It all depends on where the story is going. I try not to have a fixed ending in mind, but rather a few endings, so the story can more naturally lead towards one of them.

4. Continue writing. Always continue writing. Like in step 2, it doesn't matter if it's just one paragraph, or a full chapter. Always continue writing. In worst case, you can simply edit it later anyway. But as my father used to say, never stop walking at the bottom of a hill. Always walk in top of it, then you can take a break. It's simply that if you stop at the bottom of a hill, you will feel rested after a break, but you have a difficult section ahead of you. If you rather push on until you reach the top of the hill, you might need a longer break, but it will be much easier to continue. I think writing is a lot like that. If you stop writing for whatever reason, it will be much harder to start up again. It's much easier to keep writing as often as possible, even if it's just a paragraph pr day. It let you "stay in touch" with the story, and force you to work on it. The higher up the hill you get when writing, the easier it will be to continue writing. The start is usually easy, as you have a fresh idea in your mind, and you're eager to get started. But things tend to slow down a bit after you've gotten past the initial idea, and need to work on a longer plot. That's the hill I'm talking about. But after a while, you get really into the plot and characters, and you want to see where it is going. At this point, you're on top of that hill, and the story practically write iteslf.

5. Do some research as needed. Get all the information you need and think you will need, but don't overdo it, either. Having a historial piece authentic is important, but few really cares about the smallest details, either. I think a mix between having it authentic and a "acceptable accuracy" is enough in most cases. Stories are meant to be fun. If you want to learn about history, read a history book.

6. Repeat step 4. A lot.

 

Just make a list of events, which you want to happen in your novel and keep them simple.

 

Maybe try character building instead of story building. Good characters drive stories. And most importantly make stuff up.

 

I think what @Mckk says makes the most sense. If you're experiencing a writing problem of any kind, try to see if you can identify what it is. If you keep 'wasting' plots and having to change large portions of the writing ...see if you can figure out why that is happening.

Trying new approaches is a good idea, of course, as it's futile to keep repeating processes that don't work. But it helps if you can identify exactly what's not working before you start making changes.

Are you concocting characters to fit a preconceived plot, and then discovering, as you write them, that they don't really fit?

Are you concentrating on one part of a plot and paying little attention to how it can make sense, so you end up with huge plot holes?

Are you needing to flesh out your setting a bit more before you start writing? Or even maybe less ...less worldbuilding and more character creation and conflict creation?

Or, as Mckk suggests, are you getting distracted with too many new 'shiny' ideas? Maybe you need to focus rather than scatter your energies?

I, as a fellow forum member, don't need to get your answers to these specific questions. But you do. See if you can discover what you're doing 'wrong.' Something is sending you back to square one every time. It will be helpful to pinpoint what that 'something' is.

I would advise you to read LOTS—and I do mean LOTS—of how-to writing advice from editors, agents, other authors, etc. See what they pay attention to. Pick up any pieces of advice that seem to resonate with you. Choose lots of sources for this information, as no one source has the right solutions for everybody. Read as much advice as you can find, and think of it as brainstorming with yourself.

You seem very dedicated, so I'm sure you'll get your 'eureka' moment, and you'll be able to move forward.

 

I had a friend on a different writing forum which has now closed down and he used to work backwards.
He'd write the end of the story, then work back through the middle to the beginning. Then he'd do the plan for it. He'd list his main events, areas he felt needed work and do character profiles. He'd then stop writing and work on fleshing the story out, adding extra conflict and expanding themes. Then make the changes to his manuscript once he'd completed the plan. I guess there is no right or wrong way. But it would take him forever.

 

I've found mysteries are easiest for me to do this way. Have a solution and find the question based on the variables.

 

Two years...do you know your story?

Just a tip someone told me once: pretend your story has been written and you are a reviewer. Write the review of your novel. Most critics summarize first and then tell you what they thought of it. Or pretend you are writing the "Cliff Notes" for a highschool student assigned to write a book report on your book. Then use it as a guideline.

 

Yeah, at least know your ending when you start. That doesn't mean it will be the ending because as you start to write the characters begin to come to life and tell the story differently. But having an end in mind before starting helps.

Also, it sounds like you might be helped by only "writing in order or sequence". Have your end in mind but write from beginning to end. Don't go back and start changing things in the middle. Write your first draft from beginning to end and don't revise out of order until you have a complete first draft. Writing is rewriting. But I think it would be helpful for you not to rewrite until you have a first draft (and that doesn't mean you can't edit along the way, just do it in order). You might find when you get to the ending the ending has changed but for the better. I don't think any of my endings have been what I thought they were going to be.

 

Have you given someone your story to read? Posted some of it on this forum? Maybe what you think is bad isn't so bad to everyone else. I would try giving your story to someone to read if you haven't already done that.

 

And how to find & identify it?

The problem is never where you stuck. It is always in some earlier phase.

1. What you did before you stuck?

2. What you did not do but you should have done?
- You have a reason for not doing something. That reason is wrong. Now... Find out that reason. It's hard to find if you believe in it. You find everything else but it. Keep looking until you find it.

("I can fit characters to the plot and write well" would be a good example of reason to stuc that is hard to find if you really believe that kind of self-deception.)

 

Jannert is right.

Read until saturation point and then some.