1. ShaunGreen

    ShaunGreen New Member

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    Got a publishing offer for one of my manuscripts... unsure if this is a good deal? Advice please!

    Discussion in 'Publisher Discussion' started by ShaunGreen, Dec 18, 2017.

    I have got a publishing offer from a genuine publishers. However they are asking for £4000 administration fees and then offering me just 25% of royalties. Also they are keeping control of pricing... £14.50 for a child's novel? Too expensive I feel, but is that just me not having enough confidence in my manuscript? It is 250 pages with illustrations at a larger than normal paperback size? I am so over the moon about actually getting an offer but there is something at the back of my mind telling me this isn't right?
     
  2. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    These are not genuine publishers. I'm sorry.
     
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  3. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    Yeah, no.
     
  4. big soft moose

    big soft moose The Moderating Moose Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Vanity publishing at best , total con at worst ... that is either you'll pay 4k and get you book published but not make any money, or you'll pay 4k and get jackshit

    Incidentally 25% royalties would be fine (many publishers pay less) but money going from you to them is a massive red flag
     
  5. ShaunGreen

    ShaunGreen New Member

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    Thanks for the replies. I have researched them and they are genuine, they just like covering there basis. I receive the money back after 750 books sell. Not sure it is a risk i can take though. Anyone got any suggestions on finding finance to help self publish?
     
  6. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Don't fall for it @ShaunGreen. It's not a legit offer, that isn't how legit publishers work.
     
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  7. big soft moose

    big soft moose The Moderating Moose Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    No, no they aren't - I can't stress this enough if they want 4k upfront they are NOT a genuine publisher, in a trad deal the money goes from them to you not the other way round. What happens here is you give them 4k and they do hardly any marketing so you only sell a couple of hundred copies... so you get 25% of Gross royalty (which won't be 14.50 because they'll deduct print costs and anything else they can think of), so the royalty is about $10, you'll get 2.50 per book.... a couple of hundred copies will give you $500 - leaving you with a net loss of $3500

    In ref of self publishing it doesn't have to cost much - the main costs are editing and cover art - the actual process is basically free , unless you choose to use a service like draft to digital in which case its free at point of use but they take 15% of the net royalty (which means that you'll get about 55% of your cover price - after amazon etc have also taken a cut). Your other cost is marketting, but I'm in the school of thought that says paid adds aren't worth it until you've got more than one book to promote
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
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  8. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    A legitimate publisher will never, ever, EVER ask an author to front them money. They may be "genuine" in the sense that they do print your book and make it available for sale, but they are not operating under the same ethics and rules as a true publisher does, which is to bear the upfront costs of publishing and releasing your book, then recoup the money from their share of book sales.

    Do not pass go, do not collect $200, and most importantly DO NOT give these people a dime of your money. They are slimeballs who prey on inexperienced and enthusiastic writers like yourself - please please please do not allow yourself to be taken advantage of by them.
     
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  9. big soft moose

    big soft moose The Moderating Moose Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I'd also suggest naming them - there are a number of places notorious for this kind of thing in the writing arena so people here may be able to give a guide on credibility

    (Was it Austin MaCauley ? http://www.writersworkshop.co.uk/blog/austin-macauley-what-a-terrible-vanity-publishing-contract-looks-like/ )

    or was it Pegasus ? http://www.theindependentpublishingmagazine.com/2011/11/pegasus-elliot-mackenzie-reviewed.html

    Also see if they are on the thumbs down list

    https://patrickdevalera.com/2015/11/01/the-thumbs-down-publishers-list/
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
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  10. Trish

    Trish Damned if I do and damned if I don't Contributor

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    I'm adding my voice to those who are already telling you this isn't legit @ShaunGreen I'm sorry and I know how much of a disappointment it must be, but unfortunately this is a money grab. Please don't fall for it. Also, consider naming them as @big soft moose has asked.
     
  11. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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  12. OJB

    OJB A Mean Old Man Contributor

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    Sorry Bro, total Scam.

    This is really big in the poetry world with 'journals' offering writers publication in their magazine if X dollars is given to them. Do not fall for it.
     
  13. Solar

    Solar Contributor Contributor

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    Con. Don't be a mug. You're the seller. Not the buyer.
     
  14. NobodySpecial

    NobodySpecial Contributor Contributor

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    I'm with everyone else. Nope. Not a legit publishing house. If they were, you wouldn't be asked for money up front. It may sound like they're just trying to cover their own ass, but I doubt that's the real situation. At best they're a vanity publisher; At worst, an outright fraud preying on people who would really like to be published. When a publisher takes on a writer's project they are making an investment because they believe the work has promise. Sometimes investments fail. Real publishers won't ask you to cover the potential losses.
     
  15. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I'm sorry, but, no, they are definitely not genuine. Genuine publishers don't make you pay for anything. I'm not saying that they don't put ink on paper, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a scam.

    Why do you think they're genuine?
     
  16. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Also, if you do self publish, self publish. Anyone who controls pricing, etc., is not a self publishing service provider, they're a vanity publisher. When you self publish, you have complete control over everything.

    (I'm opposed to self publishing on the vast majority of cases. But the one good thing that it has is absolute control. Don't take on the negatives without at least getting that positive of control.)
     
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  17. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin I've got no use for kale... Contributor

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    That's not an offer, bruh, that's a solicitation for service. They'll take anyone whose check clears.
     
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  18. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    Well, they are genuine... a genuine vanity publisher. They're not a real publisher. Money flows to the author, not away.
     
  19. jannert

    jannert Who? Whooo? Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Ditto what everybody else said. If they ask you for money up front, run a mile.
     
  20. ShaunGreen

    ShaunGreen New Member

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    Thanks everyone. It is Novum publishing that made the offer. I have seen another thread on here about them since I posted this.

    On a separate note I am going to continue with this project as have already commissioned an illustrator.. who is very talented. Might as well try to see it through... any advice on how to progress? Agent or self publish? It's child fantasy 6-10 ish??
     
  21. big soft moose

    big soft moose The Moderating Moose Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    for trad pub - the publisher will probably want to use their own illustrator (or a freelancer they usually use) - so if you have already commissioned your illustrator you may have to self pub anyway (if you want to do print create space is probably the way to go)
     
  22. big soft moose

    big soft moose The Moderating Moose Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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  23. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    Children's books do very poorly when self-published, for a number of reasons. If you just want some copies for your own children or nephews/nieces/whatever, then I'd go to a printing firm and see what they can do. If you want to sell copies to people you don't know, trad publishing is the way to go. But I don't know if there are good MG publishers who take unagented manuscripts, or if you need an agent to get a good deal.

    I believe publishers prefer to use their own illustrators, and would just be buying your text. But I'm not at all certain!
     
  24. big soft moose

    big soft moose The Moderating Moose Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Is that predominantly because self publishers are limited to amazon for physical products unless they want to go the Ingram route, and kids tend to want to pick stuff up in bookshops etc , or is it because self publisher can't compete on price doing PoD with a volume production ?
     
  25. Lew

    Lew Contributor Contributor

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    @ShaunGreen, PM me with your e-mail and I will put you in touch with someone in our writing group who self-publishes children's books, who can offer you advice on advantages and disadvantages of self-publication for this genre. He set himself up as an LLC, and his products are superbly illustrated and put together, working in your age range. He has published about 20 or 30 books, both hardback and paperback as well as Kindle, about firemen and EMTs. Judging by his ranking, he is selling perhaps ten or so paper/hard titles per month. Not quitting his day job, but he is having a lot of fun. You can check him out at https://www.amazon.com/James-Burd-Brewster/e/B01LQLY3BI/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_13?qid=1513694025&sr=8-13

    And ditto what everyone else says. At least your vanity press was upfront on fees. I was approached by Dorrance on my Eagle and the Dragon two days after I registered the copyright, when all that was in the Library of Congress was the title and my name. Do NOT NOT NOT pay for publishing!
     
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