Hey, I did have a sneaky suspicion you were being intentionally funny ...but didn't want this to get out of hand or go in the wrong direction! Thanks for the clear-up...
My question is, "Why shouldn't Scotland be independent from Great Britain?" I'm looking for legitimate reasons as to why so much opposition has risen against the people of one country voting for their own sovereignty. What arguments are the nay-sayers providing? I can't think of one good reason, but then I'm not an invested interest.
I have a theory. The reason it's a joke is because there isn't really any good reason for Scotland to vote No. None. Those who are in opposition (including the Scottish MPs who want to keep their jobs at Westminster) are really scraping the bottom of the barrel. Why doesn't Cameron dare to debate Alex Salmond? Because Cameron's argument will be made to look pretty thin, that's why.
They aren't providing arguments as such. They are providing scare stories, which always prove to be based on 'facts' which turn out to have been manipulated. It's just slinging enough mud around in the hopes that enough of it will stick. And when all else fails, portray Alex Salmond as the Devil Incarnate. The UK Tory-led government wants to keep hold of Scotland to milk it for its resources (like North Sea oil) and to keep the UK's nuclear warheads on the submarines based near Glasgow. The Labour Party wants Scotland to stay in the union because without Scottish votes they haven't a hope in hell of ever winning another UK election. The UK's Prime Minister David Cameron (Tory) refuses to debate the SNP's leader and Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond on the grounds that this is an issue for Scottish people to decide (which it is). However, Cameron has been lobbying world leaders to declare they are not in favour of Scottish independence. So much for his 'hands off' approach to the issue, eh? Salmond and the argument FOR independence would make mincemeat of Cameron, and Cameron knows it. At the moment, Alastair Darling, the leader of Scotland's "No" campaign is also sidestepping the call to debate Salmond. It appears everybody is afraid of the truth, and afraid of Alex Salmond. @Cazann is right. It's becoming quite a spectacle. Whether the mudslinging will work ...only time will tell. Maybe Kermit the Frog will take on the Salmond debate? That would be fun, and popcorn sales would go through the roof. I am reminded of Labour Life Peer (Baron Robertson of Port Ellen) George Robertson's gloating remark, just after the Scottish (devolved) Parliament was established, back in 1999. Not only did it inadvertently reveal the REAL reason for the parliament being set up, but the fact that George, personally, hasn't a clue. George said: "This will kill Nationalism stone dead." Errr ...right, George. http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/news/270864-lord-robertson-warns-of-foreign-policy-impact-of-scottish-independence/
Geez... I'd never succeed in politics... I'm too honest! With this in mind, I hold my position that Scotland, should be independent from the UK. It's politically and culturally it's own country, right? It just lacks full Sovereignty. Separating politically wouldn't change the culture or social dynamics (that much), right? Maybe some people would have to adjust some things on their paperwork, maybe make adjustments to passports or citizenship or whatever, but nothing too extensive... right?
Gosh. Where is the mud, the blood, the border guards, the Dark Forces At Work to Rip Apart the Mother Country in that kind of attitude? Sounds do-able to me. http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/news/270864-lord-robertson-warns-of-foreign-policy-impact-of-scottish-independence/
Oh wait, I think I remember reading that so long as Scotland remains in the hands of Great Britain, the Leviathan would remain at rest and the extra terrestrials who've been watching over our planet would refrain fro interfering in Earthly affairs.
@jannert : I am disgusted by the propaganda against Scottish independence, and just hope that if by some miracle they (Westminster) fail to rig the referendum, and you guys vote an overwhelming 'Yes' that they'll actually let you go.
"Lafayette, we are here!" Up yours, naysayers. We might not be all we once were, but we started and finished something that bred an ideal that inspires peoples to this day.
Happy Separation Day! Has there been significant progress towards independence over the past decade or so? if so, I'm hoping things will keep progressing into that direction. I'm just wondering what does the future really hold for the Scots, and whether we'd really get to see this in our lifetime. I don't really know much of the issue, but is it so that the UK doesn't have federacy, as such, that England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland aren't as autonomous as, say, Greenland is from Denmark or the Canary Islands from Spain? Or is it closer to how the States are run? Does Scotland have, like, their own postal administration?
Yeah, it's not going to be popular in certain circles ...but if Scotland wants it, Scotland will get it. Well, the present Scottish government has pledged to re-nationalise the Royal Mail postal service if Scotland votes Yes, but at present we're stuck with the UK-run service. Which has just been sold off into private hands. Scotland has control of its educational system, its police force, its own legal system, administration of the National Health Service in Scotland, etc. However, these things are all dependent at the moment on a block grant from the UK government, based on the 'Barnett Formula' which is also under threat. The money given to Scotland in real terms has already been decreasing year upon year. The important thing lots of people forget is that the Scottish Parliament can be withdrawn at any time, on the whim of Westminster. Hence the moniker 'pretendy parliament' which has been given to it from time to time. The UK government can end its existence whenever they want, or suspend its activities whenever they want, just as they did to Northern Ireland 's Assembly from 2002 to 2007. Kind of like getting 'grounded' by a parent! The Scottish Parliament was created in order to soften demands for independence, and give the Scots SOME control over their government. But crucially, things like the monetary system, defense, social security (welfare), immigration, foreign affairs, etc are still controlled by Westminster. (Some of these powers have been 'given' to the Northern Ireland Assembly, but denied to Scotland.) It's amazing how the present Scottish government has managed to keep everything ticking over in this interim period. Some people in Scotland think they'd rather have 'more' powers, rather than full control over their affairs. This is really not to my taste at all, but the UK government is pandering to them by promising more control if Scotland votes No. However, the UK government refused to allow this option onto the ballot in September, and judging by their past record, they will simply allow the matter to drop after the election. In a worst case scenario, they could completely remove the Scottish parliament altogether, if they begin to believe that Scots will never have the courage to actually become independent. This really is the chance of a lifetime, and I hope that Scotland has the good sense to take it. The opportunity won't arise again, for a long long time, if at all. Lots has been made of the risks of leaving 'the union,' but more needs to be said about the risks of staying in it. Which are pretty scary.
In addition to what has been said, another reason is because tradition. Scotland had always been part of the 'union', had been so for centuries, and Britain doesn't want to give that up. We saw what happened when Ireland tried to separate during it's War of Independence nearly hundred years ago, and the treaty split it between the Ireland still part of Britain, and the Republic of Ireland. Scotland would have to give the British government a good reason to let them go, or keep pressing the issue until the British government is so sick of it, they're all "Fine, fine, whatever! Get out!" In short, it reminds me of the old grandparent that hates change because it's no longer what the grandparent is used to having. And the grandchildren have to convince them that the world isn't going to end because of those changes. In some ways, I can understand that because I myself don't like change that much. Still, if Scotland wants to be an independent nation, I look forward to seeing Scotland on the map next to United Kingdom and Ireland/Republic of Ireland.
Not to be pedantic but Scotland won't be independent from Great Britain, namely because that is the name of the island of which we are a part. We are seeking to break away from the United Kingdom and centralised Westminster government and become a sovereign state in our own right.
I had no idea, @outsider. In that case, I agree with her. EDIT: So I don't confuse the hell out of myself anymore. Scotland just wants to be its own sovereign country, period. No splitting, no separating. Just be it's own country while maintaing trade and close relationships with the United Kingdom.
Interesting article I came across regarding the effect of Scotland's independence on scientific research. Here it is.
Cameron wouldn't debate Alex Salmond because Cameron is a human toothbrush. Also, the President of the United States being an active part of the NO campaign is a ridiculous comment quite frankly. I'm half Scottish, living in England, and I'm against Independence, at least at this time. I don't really have much interest in debating this point, considering the YES campaign has started calling us pro-Union Scots, so many childish, nasty names as if that is a good way to prove you have the intellectual high ground. Let's just see what September brings, and I also can't help but think that no country has ever regretted independence - but few people's minds are going to be changed by an in depth discussion here on this forum. And no one's mind will be changed who will actually be voting for or against Scottish independence. Sadly, it appears I'm exempt from having my say in what happens to my home country, because I'm not actually living in Scotland.
Well, if it makes you feel any better, @Lemex, I know two Scots (one an SNP member of our branch) who now live in England who would love to vote Yes ...but can't! So you're ahead of the game on that one. Me? I'm just happy to cancel JK Rowling... if my voter registration EVER comes through. Nothing like the Bermuda Triangle that is Local Council...
@Lemex - I think you should have a say/go vote, even if you live in England. You're half-Scottish after all. And those calling pro-Union Scots names are childish and immature. They get to have an opinion as well, even if it's not popular.
I agree about the name-calling. But also hasten to add that it's a vocal minority ...a very tiny minority ...doing this. And the opposition's tiny minority are calling the Yes campaign Nazis among other things ...so take your pick. There are always a few people who behave like pains in the arse, no matter what the issue.
I looked over the BBC article that suggested separation would harm scientific research. It was a rather contrived argument given work arounds of the problems which were just procedural would be very simple.
