Hated/Loved cliches in Fantasy

Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by Kalisto, Jun 27, 2015.

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  1. Shuvam Das

    Shuvam Das Member

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    Yeah, Light Yagami was a good guy when it all started. But don't you think he turned evil gradually as the plot progressed? He was spending more time defending himself than killing off the criminals.
     
  2. daemon

    daemon Contributor Contributor

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    By "Death", I was actually referring to Ryuk. But now that you mention it, I am starting to appreciate the story that much more for how it plays with the old "anthropomorphism of death" trope by literally letting a human being play the role of Death for a while. I appreciate how it fits into the larger context of mythology.

    And you are right, Light's power corrupts him to a pretty extreme extent.
     
  3. croak3r

    croak3r Member

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    I cringe every time i read a book and everyone and their dog is carrying a sword, especially when it's some kind of family heirloom. You could argue that it's their world and sword are cheap, but that doesnt make them easy to use. I also dont like how in almost all fantasy novels (partly including mine) nobody carries a shield with them and blocks only with their sword.
     
  4. croak3r

    croak3r Member

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    EDIT: double post
     
  5. Lea`Brooks

    Lea`Brooks Contributor Contributor

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    I'd just like y'all to know.. You're helping me tremendously form the new ideas for my high fantasy. lol

    I just came up with a new storyline, but I'm still planning. And some of the things you guys are pointing out is making me rethink and reevaluate what I should do. :)

    Thanks a heap!
     
  6. Hettyblue

    Hettyblue Member

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    It is near impossible to write a story entirely free of cliche in any genre. Familiarity of theme etc. helps draw you into the world that the writer is creating more quickly. That said there are plenty of lazy cliches in otherwise interesting stories that drive me batty.

    Hates
    "The chosen one" - even when written well this does irritate me. I understand why it is used as a plot device and I can appreciate a story of a great 'Hero' etc. but honestly it is so very overdone and if the writer is not skilled at making you care about the character you can find yourself cheering on the 'Big Bad' to gut/ destroy/ inhabit the (annoying) chosen one and let evil flood the world or rule the world or whatever.

    "The love triangle" - often in paranormal fantasy the heroine seems to be forced to choose between - sexy/ interesting/ slightly seedy bloke and bland/ good bloke. Sometimes the future of the world may depend on the choice - I end up thinking "string 'em both along for a bit love" as long as she doesn't get caught it might save the world! It may say more about the books I have been lazily reading lately than fantasy as a genre generally though.

    "Fate" - linked to both above - fate is a tricky mistress and if written well the use and abuse of fate can make an interesting story. But when badly used the concept of a fated role/ love / weapon etc. is a cheat to allow a story to progress without needing to build a supporting structure for the actions of the main characters or their reasons for acting in a particular way. Also scope for irritating proclamations from the fated hero - shaking fist at the sky - "Why me!?" and no real internal dialogue or recognition of his or her own agency in the way their lives are turning out Fate needs to back its shit up - in other words.

    Loves

    "Magic" - I love the interaction of magic with the 'real' world rather than in Fanatsy worlds per se. Though I love the setting of Gormenghast - A story very much based in a recognisable but twisted version of the real world. The use of magic with a cost as stated by posters above is also very important and can make a characters decision to use magic and their relationship with magic very nuanced and bitter.

    "discovering your true nature" - this is overdone I know - but I really enjoy the story of a magical being discovering their nature/ true self etc. It is like a coming of age story with a dramatic twist and appeals to the young reader still inside me. I particularly love witches and shape shifters as they can have real fun with their emerging powers yet still be at risk of discovery - plot and character development opportunities that really capture my imagination.
     
  7. AsherianCommand

    AsherianCommand Active Member

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    Yeah I keep seeing the chosen one storyline being hated. Here () This one will make you fething cringe.

    Heres another part of my list mostly hate.

    Hate:

    The Creatures of the world are from all over the real world- Instead of being specific monsters they just every cultures. Okay. How does that make sense? If you are only taking one part of human culture, yet you are fine with having monsters from everywhere?

    I can kill anything! - The main character can literally kill anything, including legendary beasts without batting an eye.

    Characters, Characters never change - No character progression we start and end with the same damn character. Character never changes, he never learns just continues the way he was.
     
  8. wellthatsnice

    wellthatsnice Active Member

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    The Chosen One - It only happens in Fantasy Novels/Stories. In real life nobody is the chosen one (exception depending on your feelings on religion, but im not touching that can of worms)

    The Natural - The protagonist has never done an activity or skill before, however the first time they try it they turn out to be the best in the world. This is not how skill and talent works. Talk to any pro athlete or musical "prodigy" about how easy it was for them to get to the top of their field...and they will smack you in the mouth for insulting them. Real talent is a combination of constant hard work and sacrifice.

    Doomsday Device (Echo Lyrical) - Why the heck is every past society in every fantasy novel always building devices that will destroy the world in the Future? What the heck are they planning for? This device will cause every volcano on earth to erupt covering everything in molten lava. Lets put it in this unguarded room and leave it for 10 centuries for anyone to stumble on.

    100% evil Characters - Even the most evil human in the history of the Earth didn't want to simply destroy the world. They had goals that may benefit a minority at the expense of the masses, but they are never simply out to "kill everyone"
     
  9. wellthatsnice

    wellthatsnice Active Member

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    swords also chip, crack and dull when they are used blade edge to blade edge like they always are in movies and books. The spartans hated to use swords, they used spears. The Romans were a great fighting force because they used spears and large shields. When the gun was invented, swiss pikes were the only hand to hand weapon that stayed relevant long into the guns existence. British Long Bows and French Cross Bows revolutionized war during their era. Swords were actually one of the least used weapons through history, yet they get the most press. I personally blame Arthur and Excalibur for this issue in Lit. It was one of the first enchanted weapons, and it set the tone for every future weapon.
     
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  10. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    I agree with a lot of the issues that relate to overuse or potentially cliche aspects of fantasy writing (if the author can't breathe new life into the latter). But, again, to the extent that what the author has done in the fantasy world doesn't comport with what happens in the real world, I don't find that a compelling criticism in the context of fantasy. If you're writing fantasy, you aren't writing about the real world, so the argument "well, in the real world X, Y, and Z happen" isn't particularly compelling, and to the extent the fantasy author feels it is necessary to deviate from the real world, typically even the barest of explanation is sufficient.
     
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  11. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    The family heirloom never made much sense. You'd think such a priceless weapon (be it a sword, an axe, a spear, whatever) would not be carried into battle where there's a high chance of it being broken or lost!! Sometimes I just wish this could happen.

    MC: <falls to ground> “NOOOOOO!! MY PRICELESS FAMILY HEIRLOOM SWORD THAT HAS BEEN WITH US FOR CENTURIES!!! LOOOOOOST!! NOOOOOOO!!!”

    Random Dude: “Gee, maybe if you hadn't brought it with you to battle, this wouldn't have happened!”
     
  12. daemon

    daemon Contributor Contributor

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    Not only that, but if you are fighting, then you want the best weapon you can find, not the weapon you have a sentimental attachment to. How likely is it that an antique weapon is better than a brand new one?
     
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  13. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Could be all kinds of reasons. Old ways of forging or relating to magic are lost, for example. Cultures lose knowledge overtime. It happens in the real world, and it is a possible explanation for such things in your fantasy world. WoT is a perfect example where the characters are rediscovering knowledge lost over time, and really only discover a fraction of it.
     
  14. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Especially if it's an antique weapon from 500 years ago. Would a sword from the year 1015 be on par with a sword from 1515? It belongs in safety at home, not to be brought out into battle where it can be broken, lost, or worst, looted by the enemy. :confuzled: I don't get fantasy protagonists sometimes...

    @Steerpike - Still, if I had a sword that dated back centuries, I'm not going to take it with me to battle, even if I could charm/enhance it to meet my needs. It means a lot to the family, imagine how they would feel if I told them the sword broke/was lost/was stolen?

    Now that I think about it...

    *jots down notes to lessen the amount of characters walking around with swords*
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2015
  15. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    The 500 year old weapon might be a hell of a lot better. Also, there might be reasons of family honor for using it, etc.
     
  16. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Maybe, but it would still be risky. What if that sword got knocked out of your MC's hand and it fell down a chasm? What if your MC was knocked out and the sword was stolen away by the enemy? What if it broke because your MC didn't heed the wear and tear properly enough before bringing it down on an enemy soldier's shield?

    Granted all this could be excellent sub-plot potentials, I just wouldn't see myself doing it. :p
     
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  17. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    True. But any writer can come up with rationales to counter each of those.
     
  18. AsherianCommand

    AsherianCommand Active Member

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    I think alot of us agree on so many points I am glad I am not the only one who really hates the CHOSEN ONE stories.
     
  19. Lea`Brooks

    Lea`Brooks Contributor Contributor

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    I thought of another one a few days ago.

    Two countries - I've read a few fantasy novels where the entire story takes place in a made up world.. But it only has two countries! One where the main story takes place, another one nearby that they need help from. There's never any mention of other counties except these two.

    I just find it slightly annoying. It feels cheap to me. "My character needs a sanctuary, so I'm just going to create another country that they can run away to!" In my opinion, if you're going through all the effort of making countries, you may as well go all the way. You don't necessarily have to focus on more than two countries. But to me, it makes it more realistic, even in a fantasy world, to have more than two.
     
  20. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Or a world that's one biome or one culture.

    Look, our own planet has countless biomes, countless cultures in each and every single 200+ countries. Hell, even if the story just had four countries, the culture in all four should be...well...unique to that country.
     
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  21. Unit7

    Unit7 Contributor Contributor

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    When it comes to the Chosen One... I just don't like it when the prophecy makes it clear that they will win. If you are going to write one make sure it's not clear. Maybe there's a chance they could fail. I dunno.

    The one cliche I absolutely love is two lovers are constantly being reborn only to fall in love again. Wait... Is that a cliche?

    Anyways two of my own characters are in such a situation. Because both were once Goddesses who more or less rebelled against their leader they both end up mortal. One was exiled and the other exiled herself and continue to rebel.

    Hmm I'll come up with better list later. I really need to get to bed
     
  22. TheClintHennesy

    TheClintHennesy Member

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    I really like:
    1. Good guys become bad guys (or vice versa). The whole "corruption" thing is just awesome. I don't read books- but characters like Arthas, Sylvanas, and Kerrigan from Blizzard's universe- I don't know. I just really like them. It's also really interesting when a villain changes side- if it's done convincingly, I just really fall in love with the characters.
    2. Magic- Magic can come in different ways... like in some worlds (like Harry Potter), everyone has it- but in some stories like Once Upon a Time (The series), it's a specialized thing. I specifically like it even more when magic is in the same power as swords and all those

    I hate it when:
    1. He is evil because- he is a dark elf, he is a demon... or whatever. I think a character shouldn't be defined by how he is born as. :-x
    2. Chosen One - Ehhh... I think its fine sometimes... if they explain Why or How this character is "chosen" it's fine. I just don't like it when someone is "chosen" and that "chosen" one somehow manages to do everything with no problem at all.
    3. Revival - I REALLY HATE THIS. OMG. This pisses of me off the most... I specifically hate it when a character has a very convincing death scene and then just somehow revives or whatever (*coughs Groot* Guardians of the Galaxy*) DEATH IS FRICKING PERMANENT (supposedly). If you revive someone, at least change them in someway or whatever. Not that I hate Groot- but he should have stayed dead. :-x

    That's all I could think of at the tip of my tongue. :p
     
  23. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Not sure if I added this yet, but the "evil race" is a cliché that I hate with a passion. Especially when the "evil race" are goblins and the good guys are the humans/not-goblins. Just once I'd like to read a fantasy book where the humans try to kill all the goblins because they think the goblins are all evil, but a selected few come to their senses and side with the goblins against the REAL evil monsters.

    @TheClintHennesy - Oh, you'd hate Dragonball Z. :p The main characters die and are brought back so many times that it's been parodied over and over again by Dragonball Z fans. "[Referring to the Dragonballs] [Death] really isn't [of any consequence]. We're literally waiting to go back!" - Tien from Team Four Star's parody of the series. :D :p
     
  24. Lea`Brooks

    Lea`Brooks Contributor Contributor

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    Large exotic animals as pets -- There's a book I'm reading by Kelley Armstrong. And her main characters are twin sisters who are special. And they both are given large animals basically at birth. One sister has a panther, the other has a hound. They are called "the Hound/Wildcat of the Immortals." And I tell you what, it drives me crazy. Mostly because, wild animals are just that: wild. They're hard to tame, even if born in captivity, and will still have their natural wild instincts once they get bigger. Plus, it feels like a cop out. "Everyone wants a wild animal! So lemme throw this panther in there to make people like my character more."

    Drives me nuts, I tell ya.
     
  25. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Is that really inherently a cliche? I can see it being used in a cliched manner, but is the concept in and of itself cliche? Is inherently good race a cliche? Is morally ambiguous race a cliche? Seems more dependent on how you use it.
     

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