1. Madman

    Madman Active Member

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    Hating humanity?

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Madman, Aug 19, 2019.

    There are those among us who hate our species, who wants to see us destroyed, who wants to see humanity fail. I ask those of you who do to please debate with me.

    Why do we deserve to be wiped out? Because we have done terrible things to one another and to other species? Because we are supposedly evil and therefore do not deserve to unveil the secrets of the universe?

    Do you think there can exist an intelligent and self-conscious species who never acted violently? After all, are we not echoes of our violent universe?

    I guess in the eyes of the pessimist, our hate defines us more than our love. To me both defines us equally.

    My wishes is for an intact humanity to reach, immortally, into the stars and to one day attain godhood. With our faults and our beauty both.

    We have killed a lot, and we may kill even more. And that is how it is.

    What do you think? Do you love us? Do you hate us? Have you no regard for us?

    I love humanity.
     
  2. Matt E

    Matt E Ruler of the planet Omicron Persei 8 Supporter Contributor

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    We are what we are. We don't have any peers to compare ourselves to; animals don't count because their level of intelligence is so much less than ours, but for what it's worth, many would eat us alive if given the chance. How can we love or hate something without any context? Without knowing an alternative?

    Perhaps we could compare ourselves to our former state. When we do that, it only comes up favorably. If anyone disagrees then we can talk about just how horrifying the past was by modern standards, which is easy to lose sight of amid today's general prosperity and rampant non-problems. A serious problem in the 40s was a war that killed millions of people. A serious problem in 2019 is a celebrity's drunken tweet.
     
  3. Madman

    Madman Active Member

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    Are we not the same kind of humans who committed genocide? The only difference is that today we have access to more information and generally a better education. Judging ourselves harshly because of our past is what I would consider wrong. Neither should we try to hide it.

    Do you mean to say that we put more weight on trivial issues today than on serious problems? Because we do have serious problems facing us today. We have the environment, we have the rise of oppressive regimes, weapons that could alter our existence as we know it, and far more.
     
  4. Matt E

    Matt E Ruler of the planet Omicron Persei 8 Supporter Contributor

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    The trivial matters are definitely what we treat with importance. For the issues you mentioned:

    The environment: I agree there, though I think those problems will be solved with new energy and perhaps carbon removal technology.

    The rise of oppressive regimes: There are far fewer oppressive regimes today than perhaps at any point in civilized human history. The worst ones aren't really even comparable to the Asyrians, Genghis Khan, probably even the Romans, or many 20th century regimes. Yes they are brutal but you have to understand what kind of attrocities those previous regimes actually committed.

    Weapons of mass destruction: also concerning, but the threat here is difficult to compare to the height of the cold war. Remember, in retrospect we understand what was going on inside the Soviet Union. We know that it all worked out in the end. During the cold war, they didn't.

    There are bad things there but the scale of modern problems is quite different from problems in the past. Rampant disease, starvation, child mortality, war, famine, basically zero rights or entitlements. Those were facts of existence for much of human history.
     
  5. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Amateur Human Contributor

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    i think it is less about hatting humanity and more about hating what humanity has become.

    Humans are animals.... that is, we started off ruled by our most primitive urges which was to survive through finding adequate food and environment, and procreation. These were/are our biological urges. But, philosophically, what separated ourselves from animals was the ability to reason, and with reason came ethics, morality, and individuality. How must we survive? by rationalizing that the best of us, the strongest of us, should be the rulers and everyone else that dont look like us need to die/serve us (colonialism, genocide, slavery). How should we survive? by ensuring that our women remain at home and safe and bearing our children (patriarchy). How should we protect our society from lions, tigers , and bears? We create weapons to protect us from these threats. But now my neighbor is using his weapon to intimidate me, so now I must create a stronger, bigger weapon to protect my family from him (warfare in its infancy).

    As we evolve, so does our reason for doing things. Our reasons are less about survival and more about problem solving for our own personal problems versus the problems of the whole. This has become the norm, and when people try to problem solve for the whole... well, you get what we are getting now.
    this isnt to say that reason is good or bad; it is the interpretation of the individual.

    For this reason, i dont believe that there can be a species of higher intelligent beings without violent tendency because, once they have the capacity to reason and generate rational thought, there comes into the picture the haves and the have not. Why does Blorg look differently than I do? How come Xerg has a larger hut? Frugar has twice as much food than I do and I have a larger family. We were all created equal until we weren't.... this all comes with individuality. To be an individual means breaking from the norm of a group. Once you break from the norm of a group, you open up yourself and your society to alternate ways of thinking that can be both good and bad, and that duality is what generates violent reactions.

    so can we really say we hate humanity as a whole, or can we say we hate many human individuals?

    I dont hate humanity, but I have lost faith in individuals based on choices they've made
     
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  6. Edward M. Grant

    Edward M. Grant Contributor Contributor

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    None of those things are really any different from many other animals, except most have to rely on evolution to create weapons for them, rather than doing it themselves (I seem to remember some other apes do use rocks and other found items as weapons). And animals adopted them because animals which didn't tended not to survive.
     
  7. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Amateur Human Contributor

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    true. but our rationalization of these things sets us apart
     
  8. Edward M. Grant

    Edward M. Grant Contributor Contributor

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    I'd say we're the only animal which can look at our pre-programmed behaviour and decide whether it's really a good idea. I don't know of any other predator which can live in such large groups without engaging in constant conflict.
     
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  9. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Amateur Human Contributor

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    agreed.
     

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