Have you ever taken an IQ test?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Javier77, Jul 26, 2019.

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  1. Lawless

    Lawless Active Member

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    "IQ tests are discredited" means that people who get a low score get offended and the thought occurs to them that IQ testing ought to be abolished because it makes them feel inferior to other people.

    Such people are making the mistake of assuming that IQ somehow measures the overall value of a human being. That is not the case. There are many skills and characteristics useful in life and IQ measures only one of a human being's many aspects.

    IQ is something we can measure, so we measure it and compare our scores and make conclusions from them. While doing that, people sometimes forget that IQ is not everything.

    However, just because IQ is not everything, it doesn't mean it's completely meaningless either.
     
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  2. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    But does it veer toward quackery and toward pseudo-science?

    ...I've been hunting relentlessly for scholarly articles;

    just for once, one time for that feeling of wiping the smug, the little superior smirks from under their spectacles, and pushing them from their bicycles - into the river; snapping their dinosaur wrists, burning chessboards. Ordinary sentiment.

    I simply want and I need to say:

    'Your so-called intelligence quotient is nothing but a pile of psychoanalysis, neuro-linguistic programming, my autism virus, a flat earth...' etcet, 'ha ha, ha ha hah.'

    How do I do that?
     
  3. talltale

    talltale Member

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    I don't mean to brag, but I scored a very high 85.
     
  4. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    The biggest problems we have with IQ tests are the fact that humans make them and run them and take them, and even though we've been refining and standardizing these tests for somewhere around a hundred years now, humans in general remain stubbornly diverse. Ask someone from Botswana to calculate the volume of a snowman, and they'll be at a distinct disadvantage even if they have the mathematical tools to do so. Now give anyone in the world a test that relies heavily on written communication and maths skills when they have dyslexia and/or dyscalculia and time their reactions, and how well do you think they're going to score against someone who's less able to comprehend the actual principles behind the problems but isn't burdened by being not normal.
     
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  5. LostThePlot

    LostThePlot Naysmith Contributor

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    Yeah, the real killer with all IQ discussion is that the over focus on IQ makes it seem like this is the only factor that is important.

    And honestly, this is a huge frustration of mine because we badly need to talk about IQ inequality in society. People are 100% not to blame for their IQ. Even if you are a full blank slate believer, their IQ develops as a child, not as an adult. And yet IQ has a massive impact on your whole life. If you get born one standard deviation below the average, around 84, then your life is vastly impacted. This isn't a small group either, this is about 15% of society, so 2 or 3 kids in each school classroom. Our whole society is computerised and getting more so, but interacting with computers is not easy for certain people. And remember, these aren't people who are disabled, at least not in any fundamental sense. They are regular people. They don't have neurological disorders or head injuries. They are just... What is even the right word?

    When god was handing our cranial horsepower some people got a Citroen 2CV and some people got a Lamborghini Countach. And how fucking unfair is that? Because there is (as far as we know) no way to change it. And it does profoundly impact lives.

    It's really difficult to get into though. I mean, are we going to get to the point of saying if you have an IQ below 90 you can't be held responsible for your own actions? I mean, presently if your IQ is below about 80 or so then we already do that. We already have judged that below a certain point you are legally a child and cannot live as an independent human being. Can you imagine being told that as a kid? That you are below average so we can't let you breed.

    And this is just some of the problem. Because IQ discussions always end up here. Whether intentionally or not, the focus on IQ within that discussion leads us to only use IQ to determine who is meaningfully human and who is not. Which is a terrible idea because IQ is not designed for that. But in a discussion of IQ, what else are you going to use?
     
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  6. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    You have to remember that even if you drive a Lamborghini, you're going to run into badness if you take it over 100. Not everyone that's seriously intelligent goes off to become some scientist somewhere either due to situation or preference. And being a genius is a setback in your average work situation. The average person is closed minded and insecure. When you're a manager and see someone do naturally the things that took you years of hard work to accomplish, your first instinct isn't to give them a promotion, it's to repress them because they're a threat to you. Being a genius is only greatly of benefit when you're on a closed course surrounded by other geniuses. Once you're off the shoulders of that bell curve, life gets harder for you, regardless of what shoulder you're riding off of. Not to mention that persons with above average intelligence are statistically more likely to suffer from depression and personality disorders. So I wouldn't say that being a genius is as distinct an advantage as you might think.
     
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  7. Matt E

    Matt E Ruler of the planet Omicron Persei 8 Contributor

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    It's an illusion. We come up with an artificial measurement based on many factors, and think that it can measure how intelligent someone is. But can it really? What is intelligence? Is it the ability to score well on a test, or the ability to actually make correct decisions?

    Intelligence is not a number. It's more complicated than that. Even if we look to capture performance in an average, we often use one measurement in an attempt to predict something else entirely. Someone's IQ measurement does not predict their ability to close sales. Their ability to close sales in the past predicts that. Usually. It's complicated. Even correlations are often wrong.

    We tell ourselves that people below a certain IQ are not responsible for their actions. The difficult truth is that no one is responsible for their actions. When people do insane things, it is not because they rationally examine all of the facts and decide on an insane course of action. If someone does something insane, then that is insanity. We should not use an unrelated measure, IQ, to tell us who is capable of making rational decisions when we can instead just look at the decisions they make.

    Free will is an illusion. There isn't a part of us that can be held entirely responsible for what we do. Everything we do is a product of our nature and the environment around us. We can be molded, yes -- change the environment, and sometimes change the nature. This is how we get better outcomes.

    We do not get better outcomes through vengeance, punishment, and retaliation. These make us feel better and serve as a reason for the more rational people not to do things. But the least rational people will do those things anyway, and IQ is not a good differentiator here.

    Instead, show me a measure that will detect whether someone will become a criminal. But you probably won't show it to me. You'll show it to some investors then make a billion dollars. No one has that.
     
  8. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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  9. Alan Aspie

    Alan Aspie Banned Contributor

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    Our snowmen keep the volume down. They know that making too much noice would draw unwanted attention of carrot seeking rabbits to them.
     
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  10. Alan Aspie

    Alan Aspie Banned Contributor

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    You had a good speech, LTP. I just want to point out something...

    There is really much folks with neurological disorders and high, very high or extremely high IQ.

    You could even say that being in the extreme right end of distribution automatically puts you to the group of neuro atypicals - by definition. You can't be both neurologically typical and rare.
     
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  11. Alan Aspie

    Alan Aspie Banned Contributor

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    Managers are easy. You can quit.

    Try having extremely envious & manipulative family member who's behaviour fits well to the descriptions of narcissistic psychopathy and projects her mind to you from your early childhood to this day.


    (This purely as a thought experiment as everyone can guess.)
     
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  12. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    Not a bad idea, but not really recommended for people that have expenses. Especially if you're in an area where unemployment is a thing.

    "So, why did you leave your last job?"
    "Muh boss was threatened by my 'thoritie!"
     
  13. Matt E

    Matt E Ruler of the planet Omicron Persei 8 Contributor

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    I see your point, but that would be one bad manager to work with. Overall I don't think it's a smart power play. Managers are evaluated by how well their team does, how much money they make. When their team members succeed, the business makes more money, and the boss looks good. The manager just needs to take credit for the success and make it look like it was their glorious leadership that enabled the employee to succeed.

    There are still plenty of issues that come up when you perform well though:
    • Peers may feel threatened
    • You may be expected to keep performing at that level and grow, even if your peers aren't
    • You'd be a target of anyone who wants your team to fail
    • Angst associated with knowing that you could do more
    • The burden of knowing that nobody exists on purpose, no one belongs anywhere, and everybody's gonna die
    I try not to conflate performing well with high IQ, as those are often different, only correlated statistically for some purposes.
     
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  14. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    Which brings up emotional intelligence, something that IQ test completely ignore. Otherwise intelligent people can do really stupid things when emotions come into play.

    Except for when they're not. I can't tell you how many places I've been where people were in management because of nepotism, toadyism, or (like myself) because they were the only option that one time and it works (sort of) so lets not rock the boat unless an obviously better solution presents itself. Good managers are about as easy to find as good employees, and ask a manager how many of those there are around.
     
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  15. Matt E

    Matt E Ruler of the planet Omicron Persei 8 Contributor

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    I definitely agree that there are a lot of managers out there who don't necessarily know what they are doing. Part of the difference here is whether it's in an industry where management is a profession, or where it's a slightly better job title.

    For most of those cases, success is still a good look, and a manager can't succeed without their employees also succeeding. A manager who gets the job because of nepotism may be incompetent, but they should still try to be successful, because their daddy could lose his power. Success usually doesn't rock the boat, on the contrary, undermining underlings may cause them to rock the boat and create trouble. If the employee is just a manager by opportunity, they should still try to succeed, as circumstances may change. Toadyism may be different -- gotta make sure that your underlings don't out toady you, haha. But yes, a lot of people may react emotionally. I'd advise people to steer clear of those enviornments as there probably isn't much success to be had, otherwise they'd be hiring quality managers. Play ___ games, win ___ prizes kinda thing.
     
  16. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    Key word being 'should.' But I do think we're coming at this from different perspectives. Seattle has a vastly different labour market than, well, pretty much anywhere that's not a large urban/metropolitan centre. Either way, we're probably getting off track.
     
  17. Alan Aspie

    Alan Aspie Banned Contributor

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    Money is the meter only in few areas like sales.

    +

    Managers don't evaluate things according to reality but to their own perception about reality. And one can't think above his or her intelligence, creativity or socio-emotional skills.

    Creativity - ability to create something new and meaningful which works - is rare among adults. And you have to be creative to be able to evaluate it right. And it does rock the boat even when it's what is needed. And creative solutions rarely look like obvious or better if you don't understand them...

    Extremely hi IQ types are often repressed. Extremely creative hi IQ types are almost always repressed. Plus undermined +....
     
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  18. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    Not to mention just frequently misunderstood in general. A good portion of the Mensa members I've known spent time in remedial education classes in school.
     
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  19. Alan Aspie

    Alan Aspie Banned Contributor

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    "If I am unable to understand your thinking it means that you are stupid!"

    That is a very common evaluating tool.
     
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  20. ThunderAngel

    ThunderAngel Contributor Contributor

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    Additionally, the IQ test may underestimate one's actual intelligence. I remember my older brother scoring very poorly on an IQ test, but he was incredibly smart, though one wouldn't know it because he was so unassuming at the same time. When I took one, I got a score of 150, but, as a teenager, I built a working Turbografx controller out of cardboard, wire, and tape that was about 80 to 85% functional because the controller that came with the system was broken in an accident, so I don't really trust my score either.

    My brother and I were uber-nerds as kids, and his math and writing skills were very impressive. I was more the 'creative-artist' type with a bohemian aesthetic, while he was the more analytical type with a more conservative aesthetic; he liked hanging out with Dad, while I was more comfortabe with Mom, so we were quite different. But we did have some things in common: we shared a love of Star Trek, video games, pizza, Transformers, cartoons etc. :)

    By the way, a high IQ doesn't, necessarily, mean that one will do good in school. Sometimes, poor grades are not a sign of "Learning-disability", but of a lack of interest.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
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  21. v_k

    v_k Banned

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    I self tested using translated IQ tester book long ago at age of 16-17. The score was too high, and the explanation was that for high scores it should be different book. Made me proud, but now I think it was a trick to sell more translated books.

    The real test happened when I was a candidate to enter a military academy. Me and about 100 candidates pass. Right after the test me and one other guy, were summoned for military psychiatrist doctor.
    The doctor was concerned that I filled the test answers too fast and wanted to see me. I do not remember anything more of what he asked me.
    The other guy said that doctor asked "why do you avoid stepping on cracks on the sidewalk ?", the test had questions like "Do you skip cracks on sidewalk ?". The guy answered that he was afraid to fall into cracks if they were too wide.
    Later after 3 or so years in academy we dropped out.
     
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  22. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    My whole family was recruited to a secret government laboratory where we had our intelligence tested for 'statistics.' I remember the steel probe, the jelly-like tiny section of my brain laid on the petri and poked. I'm still proud the portion passed the test, and lived to the regimental motto which I've forgotten actually, ironically. Is that ironic?
     
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  23. JLT

    JLT Contributor Contributor

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    I frankly don't know what my score on an "intelligence test" would be. The only one I remember taking had me doing well enough to mandate my taking a more demanding test, but I wasn't interested in taking it.

    Curious thing: I had two very good friends who were in Mensa. Both participated in their meetings, mostly to meet other people, but found them boring (the meetings and the people) and dropped out after a couple of years.
     
  24. Alan Aspie

    Alan Aspie Banned Contributor

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    Oh?

    Is that how Yorkshire pudding was invented?
     
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  25. Rae_3

    Rae_3 Member

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    I mean, I've taken a test to get into the Gifted program, and my IQ was 137
     

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