1. SnugPugg

    SnugPugg Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2022
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    18

    Having characters more active part in the story

    Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by SnugPugg, Sep 7, 2022.

    I have a vampire series I'm having beta read at the moment. One beta thinks my FL and ML haven't done much and that they let the witches investigate the problems that arise more.

    So before I send book 3 to my beta I want to make sure I'm not having that issue again. This one the plot is there is a werewolf den that wants ML dead--because he's a powerful vampire threat to them.

    The ending is that they kidnap FL to make a trap for him, but they vastly underestimate how strong he is and he eradicates them all to save her.

    Anyhow, through the main part of the story I want to make sure they are active in enough before that. ML does go track them but realizes the den is larger than he thought, and decided he wanted to take time to plan his attack.

    The werewolf den is studying him and decide to test his strength but only receive an injured cub in the process as a warning.

    That cub's father wants revenge and goes after him but the den finds ML kills him in the fight.

    FL is there as support, she's not strong enough to do anything on her own. She does work on her training with him though.

    One idea I have is to incorporate the whole vampire group of friends and bring them into the fold--they meet together and brainstorm on what to do, and possibly split into a couple packs to seek out any wolves in the area and kill them, trying to enrage the leader to come out so they can finish him.

    But I'm not sure if that's good or if there are better options to do instead.
     
  2. Banespawn

    Banespawn Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2022
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    24
    I realize this is a summary, but even so, it feels light. The ML doesn't seem to be challenged in any meaningful way. He succeeds at the end because the bad guys underestimate him. He's not earning his achievement.

    In many stories, the MC starts out not having the necessary strength/skill/knowledge to succeed, and they progress over the course of the story to the point where they can find a way to win. That gives them a growth arc. I'm not seeing that here.

    You want your protagonists to be proactive, but the ML seems to just react to what the werewolves are doing. You mentioned the ML tracking them and taking time to plan his attack, but his attack only happens in response to the FL being kidnapped, so whatever he was planning is out the window. He's attacking them on their terms, not his own.

    The FL doesn't seem to do anything at all. She trains (but does nothing with that training) and get kidnapped. She's more of a plot device than a character.

    Dig deeper into the goals for each character. Why is the ML a threat to the werewolves? What is the ML's motivation for wanting to attack the werewolves? What does the FL want?
     
    Louanne Learning and Storysmith like this.
  3. SnugPugg

    SnugPugg Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2022
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    18

    I wanted something different and also because of who he is (the vampire leader, but he's keeping it secret) he has more than enough to kill anything besides the werewolf leader who is more of his match. His growth comes more out of his pain from his past and that falling in love with FL brings him out of his shell and into more of who he is meant to be.

    I see the react part though. That doesn't sound good. So I need to have him do it on his terms, but that also would wipe out the huge fight scene I made that I really enjoy lol

    FL wants to him to be safe and is nervous he will be hurt. But she's also trying to become stronger and not have to depend on others is I think where I am going with book 3. But maybe I didn't do as much as I thought I did and now as you see she's not much of a character. Ugh.

    ML is a threat because of his age and his power, and the den wants to protect their family and kill him before he gets too close. Also one of their cubs is an old high school friend of FL who wants her to himself. ML wants to protect his woman and stop them from constantly going after her or his loved ones. FL wants to be stronger as I said, and to stop being stalked. I also had an idea of editing the final fight and adding a part where she's struggling to get out and wanting to join them in the fight instead of watching it while tied up.
     
  4. Storysmith

    Storysmith Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    341
    I agree with Banespawn that your characters are reactive and the ML overpowered. If you want to keep him overpowered, at least give the villains some kryptonite, e.g. wolfsbane or silver, so that the reader wonders whether he'll make it through. So far, he sounds a bit of a Mary Sue. I've got a feeling I might side with the werewolves if I read it - they were spot on about him wiping out their nest, and who doesn't support an underdog.

    With regards to the reactiveness, I'd say the main issue is that I see no indication of what ML and FL want. The werewolves out of the way, sure, but that in itself is a reactive desire. If the werewolves weren't there, what would the vamps want, and how do they seek it despite the werewolf problem? The FL training sounds good; I suggest having her learn a special move during that, then using it in the final fight to save the day. It would be a good payoff.
     
  5. SnugPugg

    SnugPugg Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2022
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    18
    I'm a bit on the fence about that first part because he's the oldest vampire, and the older they are, the stronger they are. He's not meant to be wiped out or have much struggle with this den. (My whole series revolves around the "Alpha" of each race, and that they each have special powers. Him being the Vampire Alpha, call him overpowered but a small den is not his kryptonite). I do have FL, who hasn't seen him fight such a large pack before, worry about him a lot and fear he may not make it.

    ML did not go after them first, though. The wolves started things since book 1 and have constantly been involved, with the psycho friend trying to get FL for his own and attempting to take her in book 1 but ML put a stop to it. He joined up with ML's evil ex in book 2 and that plan bit the dust so now he is getting his den leader involved and planning to take ML down. I didn't want anyone siding with the wolves lol this is a vampire love story, not about wolves being good.

    The vamps in this town just want to live in peace. They seek that despite the wolves' involvement inside the town and just see them as a nuisance they have to kill if they stumble upon one. The wolves will not negotiate and see them as enemies so it's kill or be killed.
     
  6. TheOtherPromise

    TheOtherPromise Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2020
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    411
    If the wolves aren't meant to be a threat, what in this book is? Where are the stakes?

    Right now, the story sounds like it is a bunch of fake drama. The ML can easily end the conflict whenever he so chooses. There is a bit of fear that he might be overwhelmed, but that fear is misplaced, and ML has no issue committing genocide on that wolf pack.

    As for how to make the characters more active, what exactly do the ML and FL want? What steps are they taking to get it? What is standing in their way?

    Honestly the werewolves sound like they make poor antagonists. They don't really pose a threat. Now if the major conflict of the book is more related to ML and FL's relationship, or potentially an internal struggle, the werewolves could work as a kind of catalyst.

    But then I also don't know much about your previous two books so I don't know what kind of conflict would work well here.
     
  7. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    12,624
    Likes Received:
    13,694
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    Or bring in a really badass Alpha wolf, who unexpectedly is leading what they thought was just a small harmless pack. Or the werewolves get some serious help from some other kind of alpha. A witch or something.

    Is there some kind of kryptonite for the vampires, that would work on the leader? Crucifix, holy water, wooden stake, anything? If not he's very overpowered, like Superman was becoming before they brought in the kryptonite. That's exactly why it was created, because you can't make interesting stories if your hero is never in any real danger.
     
  8. SnugPugg

    SnugPugg Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2022
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    18

    The wolves are a threat to other vampires, the ones he loves. Just not his own life.

    FL and ML want to keep their circle safe. And the wolves are standing in that way.

    The werewolf Alpha is the main threat for ML but the wolf community is a threat to the rest of the vampires. Not entirely sure how they can get into their relationship or cause an internal struggle. Book 1 was more of the witches. FL was a half-vampire at the time, and the supernatural world saw her as a threat so the witches wanted to kill her. Small side note of the old werewolf friend coming in to take her for his own. ML turns her into a full blood after she's staked but before her heart stops.

    Book 2 she's learning more about her full strength but finds ML was the one that turned her originally. Conflict there for the first part but then she starts to get stalked by ML's ex. She drafts the werewolf into her evil plan--help her witch friend use mind magic to completely make ML hers and the FL his.

    Now book 3 is fully on the wolves, with the "friend" wanting ML out for good so he has his den leader see the strength he emits, and they go from there and as mentioned, end with ML finally ending them fully.
     
  9. SnugPugg

    SnugPugg Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2022
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    18
    The wolf Alpha actually comes to play here first but not with ML yet. He's working with the witch Alpha on creating a plan to lure the vampire one out (ML) and they start to do that. But he doesn't meet ML until book 4.

    The one thing that can kill ML comes in book 5 when the wolves and witches team up to completely eradicate the vampire clan. But introducing that now is a no-no because ML's secret of him being the alpha is the shocking ending of book 4.
     
  10. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2021
    Messages:
    1,714
    Likes Received:
    1,359
    Silver.

    https://mysticinvestigations.com/vampire-extermination/

    Which means the Lone Ranger was a cowboy vampire slayer.
     
    Xoic likes this.
  11. SnugPugg

    SnugPugg Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2022
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    18
    In the paranormal world I was brought in, silver is for wolves, wood for vampires. I stick to that for mine. Wooden stake to the heart kills vamps, silver dagger kills wolves. Only the Alphas can not be killed by them, only injured severely. Vampire Alpha's one is found in book 5.
     
  12. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2021
    Messages:
    1,714
    Likes Received:
    1,359
    Then you were brought up in a non-standard paranormal world, because the source I cited is far from the only one that lists silver (or colloidal silver) as an agent for dispatching vampires. Just Google it -- my search turned up sites listing as few as five things that would kill vampires to (IIRC) as many as 33 things.

    That said, my response was specifically to answer Xoic's question. If in your world only wood can kill vampires, then so be it.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice