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  1. Spacer

    Spacer Active Member

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    Help with character ‘C’

    Discussion in 'Character Development' started by Spacer, Oct 5, 2017.

    I’m 56000 words into a novel that has three main characters. I want to keep a balanced coverage of whose viewpoint I use, overall, though different parts of the story naturally have a different character up front.

    I’m doing pretty well with A and B, but I simply don’t know C. I’d like some help fleshing this out. Either ideas on how to do that in general, or some specific ideas or prompts for this specific character. Have you written a character like this or know anyone with similar traits? I mean her inner voice, how does she see the world and react. Stats I can just make up and list, to fit the story.



    Cindy is 23 when the story opens. She is olive-skinned with chestnut hair.
    Unlike A and B which are “geeky” but in different ways, I want her to contrast that. She went to art school and continues taking non-degree classes while trying to build a modeling career (catalog work mostly; bread-and-butter job) and knows that such is a career to have while she’s young, and will become an artist or designer longer term. That’s her motivation as the novel opens: to build her career and have success.

    A and B use a lot of words. Huge vocabulary, complex sentence structure in dialog. C should be different from that. How do you write someone who doesn’t talk so much? She does have a superior ability to read people’s body language, and so doesn’t need to use words so much. Except that A, like most guys, is essentially blind to that modality and B’s ability is on the low side of normal for a woman, but does better than normal reading people she’s close to.

    She has a brother who’s four years older.

    She has unusual looking eyes, and she’s self conscious about that, not wanting to freak people out or draw the bad kind of attention. Remember what kids are like; she’s young enough to still be affected by that.
     
  2. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Random questions:

    Have you written both scenes that are from C's viewpoint, and scenes from other characters observing C?

    Have you written any scenes that are heavily dependent on C? What's her purpose in the plot? You say that she doesn't talk much, but is she passive, or just quiet?

    Is she an introvert? Are you perhaps unclear on what introverts are like? If you want to invest a few hours, you could try the book Quiet, but Susan Cain.

    The combination of modeling and art feels odd to me, and I'm wondering if diluting her motivation by having two such different goals may be part of the issue with figuring out who she is. Do you need them both?
     
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  3. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    What genre is you book?
     
  4. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    What do you mean when you say 'unusual looking eyes'?

    I wrote a short a while back with the MC having a dark brown
    eye and a light blue eye, and it did not affect their self esteem
    to where they tried to hide the fact.

    So why would someone be self conscious about the their eyes?
    Unless they have them bulging out of their head like a chihuahua. :p

    I will also stand in agreement of the two others posts prior to mine. :)
     
  5. mashers

    mashers Contributor Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Focus on non-verbal communication and her inner monologue.

    Cindy grunted, not bothering to look up. She could spot the condescension a mile off.

    Make those misunderstandings clear as it will demonstrate those personality traits in A and B and create conflict between them and C.

    B persisted, "I mean, we did warn you about it. We knew this would happen!"
    Cindy glared at him, but he continued anyway, seemingly oblivious.
     
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  6. Seren

    Seren Writeaholic

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    I think she sounds quite interesting! I agree with @ChickenFreak that modelling and art do seem like quite different aspirations. Perhaps the modelling should just be a way for her to earn money, because she happens to be tall/slim enough, while she works towards that long-term career goal?

    To write her as a person who doesn't talk so much...make her not talk so much. When she's having conversations, she should always be the person doing the least "turn-taking". She should contribute significantly less, and, where you think appropriate, perhaps not bother with replies at all. (For instance, the conversation also involves Character A and Character B. Character A responds to something that Character B says with some kind of simple affirmative ("Okay" "All right") but Character C uses her silence as an affirmative. I actually do this a lot in real life, whoops.) The examples others have suggested would also be good ways to get her personality across.

    I have a quiet character in the story I'm writing at the moment, and it's just made apparent by her contrast to the people around her. Unlike the rest of the group, she never really contributes to the conversation unless she is spoken to or she deems it necessary. She is not a character who makes small talk or displays her reactions to the events of the plot using words.

    Finally, I also want to know what you mean by unusual eyes. I think her eyes have got to be extremely unusual to draw so much attention that she would feel self-conscious. If they're just an unusual shade, you have to ask yourself how many people really notice eye colour anyway. Also, if she feels self-conscious about them, why is she a model? I understand that not all models are bursting with confidence, but I still don't think someone who feels so strongly about their eyes would have a job like that.
     
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  7. Spacer

    Spacer Active Member

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    Not yet. I have scenes from A’s and B’s point of view, but need to understand what C’s POV is in order to write those.

    Love triangle. Not talking much: I worry I’m neglecting her because I don’t have a feel for her character.

    They all are, and are not. I dislike the MBTI: I tested as extrovert when I took it, which surprised me. Then on another occasion it showed as Introvert. Last time, it was exactly in the middle. You can see videos on youtube about how smart people have fewer friends etc. but there is really much more to it than that. So, for C in particular, she’ll have a ball at a party, drawing caricatures on a hand-held art pad, laughing it up, and being the darling of the party. But on another occasion the existence of a party does not interest her; she’s rather have a quiet evening with a few close friends, or be alone in the loft painting.

    In any case, if they are all stereotype introverts, there would be no story.

    I don’t see that as odd combination. It was a natural progression for her as the availability of such work is common knowledge around the school. If she had different interests, would that be any better? I agree that doing both as a career development path would be spreading thin; the art can be a hobby now, something she enjoys doing. She expects to develop that into a career after she ages out of the modeling. Note that most “geek” folks have multiple hobbies and interests that they do on a professional level of skill. So that’s no different than A (the engineer).
     
  8. Spacer

    Spacer Active Member

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    Romance with erotica, and a dash of science fiction.
     
  9. Spacer

    Spacer Active Member

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    Spoilers :)

    But why? [⋯] “Perhaps you are afraid it detracts from your beauty or are self-conscious about it, as Beth is about hers. I can see the shape just fine through the visor; so something about color only. Full heterochromia?” Abe tried to recall if the dark and light views were of the same eye but could not.

    “Hazel patches are too asymmetrical? Or that look like a dirty picture? I can only speculate. But in general, that’s my conclusion.”

    The girls looked at each other momentarily, then back at Abe. “Close. I’m afraid you’ll freak out.”

    Abe did not laugh, intentionally keeping his expression neutral. “I’m currently in my engineering/detective head-space, so be assured I won’t freak. I’m ready for you to show me now.”

    Abe reached up, one hand at each of her temples, to grab her sunglasses. She also reached, covering his hands with her own. They stayed still for long moments. Abe gently pulled the glasses forward, keeping them between their eyes but clearing her head. Then quickly lowered them to the table, never breaking eye contact.

    At last, staring into each others naked eyes. His blue eyes must look dull to her, as his face is in shade. Her pupils contracted as the direct sunlight made contact, and Abe saw the full majesty of her irises as they expanded to their full size: Vivid, vibrant, electric violet. Breathtaking.

    After a long moment, Cindy broke the silence. “Well? Say something!”

    “I’m left without words.” was all he had at the moment.

    “It was the same with me.” Beth added.

    Cindy turned to Beth, “Ha! I thought you were going to faint.”

    Beth turned to Cindy, recalling an earlier moment that they had shared. “They took by breath away, literally. They’re simply the most beautiful eyes I’ve ever seen. And there seems to be no poetic imagery to draw on for purple in this context. You certainly can’t rhyme it!”

    “Actually, Robert Burns did rhyme purple.” Abe retorted. “And it’s most certainly violet, not purple.”​

    Having people freak out. Being teased and tormented in grade school for being different. Consider yourself fortunate for never having had to observe such behavior.
     
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  10. Spacer

    Spacer Active Member

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    That’s actually part of her character development. Going to an art school turned everything around. People there were creative and interesting and accepting of her. Taking a turn at being the Subject in a class, even if it’s only her foot or her hands holding a mess of beads (at first) gave her self-esteem. Getting paid work for “real” painters and sculptors, and artist-in-residence at the school and projects associated with staff, was a natural extension.

    She is not tall and thin, BTW. She’s the shortest of the main characters. Beautiful, but not the current fashion for supermodels and cover girls. But for clothing catalogs they need more body types, and she’s in demand for her legs, and her curvy hips are perfect for selling certain kinds of lingerie.
     
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  11. Spacer

    Spacer Active Member

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    I see there is room for more complexity here. She can pay the rent so she doesn’t have to worry about selling a piece or getting involved with a commissioned work, but can let that develop. But, just getting by isn’t a comfortable position…she would want to network and work contacts to make sure she gets enough work, and then the instinct to do well kicks in.

    I see what you mean. I have to make sure she is noted in the text as not talking, rather than just not being in the dialog at all.
     
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  12. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I'm thinking about the rest of your post, but on this, I'm confused why?
     
  13. Spacer

    Spacer Active Member

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    If they sat home all the time and didn’t interact with others, they would not have met each other. Interesting things happen when they interact with other people, which also provide observers for the narrative.
     
  14. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    But, that's not what introverts do. It sounds like you're equating stereotypical introverts with stereotypical hermits. Not the same thing. (Edited to add: If you remove "stereotypical" it's extra extra not the same thing.)

    Seriously. Quiet. It's not that long a book. If you want to understand a person who doesn't engage in a whole lot of extra conversation, I think the book is worth reading.
     
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  15. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    My understanding is that introverts are people who need solitude to recharge their emotional batteries, whereas extroverts do so by being around other people. No one thinks I'm an introvert because when I'm being social I'm super outgoing and the life of the party. I honestly enjoy being around other people and am quite often, but I have to balance it with time by myself or I get stressed and upset. A few weeks ago I had my MIL staying with us and there was a ton of socializing, which wouldn't have been an issue except that I couldn't come home and chill for a couple of hours after each time because when I got home I had to keep being social with MIL until it was time to go to bed. This led to me breaking down in very-unlike-me tears after five days.

    But no, introverts don't stay home all the time and not make friends or go out on the town. We really don't.
     
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  16. Spacer

    Spacer Active Member

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    I said I’m specifically against the MBTI meaning of Introvert/Extrovert. They take a normal distribution and cut it somewhere near the center and assign the result into two buckets. That is suitable for a bimodal distribution, but here you lose the fact that people are mostly near the middle and a tiny step one way or the other crosses that scoring line. Also, MBTI does not care about a feature that doesn’t affect anything but only applies to how the person recharges after work. They are supposing their results apply to the personality type expressed in the office and in a fundamental way.

    Many writing advice places mention “16 types of characters you should have” and uses the MBTI as a guide to designing character profiles. I quite agree that we are not stereotypes and I’ve noted that as a self-identified Introvert I manage to test inconsistently on that point.

    And what exactly are we asking about here? If the “real” meaning of Int/Ext doesn’t have much if any effect on how she interacts with other people throughout the day, then it isn’t a major part of finding her inner voice. If “no one thinks she’s an introvert because she’s outgoing at a party”, what is the point of the label here?
     
  17. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    OK. I'm not talking MBTI and never was. As far as I know, the book that I'm recommending doesn't talk MBTI either. The introduction of MBTI to this thread came completely and entirely from you.

    But you are asking how to understand a character that doesn't do a lot of talking. I'm recommending a book that addresses precisely that topic. I'm not quite sure why you are rejecting the answers to your question.

    What sorts of answers to your question will you tolerate?
     
  18. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    I've literally never used MBTI in my life, not for writing or in my personal/professional life.

    But whatever, I wish you luck with finding the answer to your problem. I think I'm done trying to assist.
     
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  19. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I feel the need to note that according to the dictionary, the first use of the word 'introvert' was in 1669. I think that the MBTI is a little newer than that. So, @Spacer , consider the possibility that perhaps they're not irrevocably tied together?
     
  20. Spacer

    Spacer Active Member

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    I think we're getting long on a tangent here. You seem to be latching onto a remark I made when explaining that the chars are not stereotypes in this regard so classifying them as Int/Ext is not a simple checkbox. And I'm not "rejecting" any answers: what makes you think that I am?

    If (any of you on this thread) have never run across Myers–Briggs from managers or counselors who buy into that snake oil, consider yourself lucky. Note that they don't always label it as to where it came from.

    Laurin's definition of Introvert as (only) the way to recharge and re-energize and contradicting that it's a penchant for different kinds of participation is also contrary to Cain's definition.

    So, can we drop the whole Int/Ext label thing? I know how my characters are in this respect in a more nuanced manner, just as I know her parent's names and sibling's names and ages, etc. What I'm still working on developing a distinct inner voice and writing her differently than other characters.
     
  21. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I'm going to use the Forbidden Word anyway.

    This is making her reaction primarily about people. But there are other motivations. She could be motivated by her own work, by art, by her own accomplishments, without those things being filtered through people. So in conversation, she may not be particularly motivated by mere interaction and approval, but instead by finding something truly new in what someone says. So the people around her may talk and talk and talk, and she may filter it all out with the occasional civil response, but when someone says something truly new, something that she could use in her art, she might become animated.

    Again, this is about people--she's getting self-esteem by interacting with and being noticed by others. But I think that it makes more sense for her to get self-esteem through her own accomplishments. External validation may be very important if it comes from someone who has mastered the things that she wants to master, if she thinks that it's a strong indication of her own accomplishments. But I don't think that merely being observed as a physical being is going to be a big self-esteem builder for an introvert.

    Remember, introverts aren't introverts because they can't figure out how to be extroverts. They aren't craving more human interaction and sighing in relief when they get it. They crave different things.
     
  22. JE Loddon

    JE Loddon Active Member

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    I've known a couple of girls who were into art and did modelling. They're both visual things, and both girls processed life visually, which is why they didn't speak much. They found it hard to find the words they wanted, and found visual stuff less frustrating. Few words, many hand gestures. If it's a modern day setting, there would be much tapping at iPads and showing pictures and drawings. Not sure how exactly you would harness all this in your writing, but try and see the world from character Cs point of view. Words lie, the eyes don't.
     
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  23. Spacer

    Spacer Active Member

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    Very nice. Thanks for that succinct line.

    Excellent point about being able to have more access to visual representations using modern technology.
     

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