Help with an early concept, please?

Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by cosmic lights, Apr 14, 2020.

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  1. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin I don't feel tardy.... Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I guess... if you want to dig more narrative holes for yourself, haha. Might want to try ducking a punch or two.
     
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  2. cosmic lights

    cosmic lights Contributor Contributor

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    I think I need to go away and do some research and brain-storming of my own. And also do some work on my main character's thought process, people don't need to agree with her but they need to understand why she's so unwilling.

    Thanks everyone for your time and if you think of anything please let me know.
     
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  3. Rae Finn

    Rae Finn New Member

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    Technically you could get around this issue, depending on how much of a time lapse there is between the creation of mina and the clone of her, if you look at magic in your world as you would science in this world there is always advancements over time, so depending on how long between these incidents there could have been a breakthrough to eradicate health issues in clones, therefore making them more viable for transplants.

    you would still have the ethical dilemma without the plot hole in the cloning process.

    Just a random suggestion that popped into my head when reading the thread.
     
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  4. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor

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    It could be a corrected clone—the witch could sense congenital problems like heart disease or whatever and correct for it.

    That suggests all kinds of possibilities that could make it interesting.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2020
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  5. ruskaya

    ruskaya Senior Member

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    I think this is quite a new idea worth exploring. I know you might have already figured out what to do, which I hope you will share because now I am dying with curiosity.

    Since I am at it, I will add my opinion anyway. It seems to me that the way you talk about magic implies you are not convinced that magic exists or works. Think of shamans in many cultures, despite knowing there are many medical advancements, "magic" stays strong with the believer because it makes sense within a different system of beliefs. If you want to treat magic as a matter-of-fact, an it-works-! thing, it still belongs to a system of belief that it is not science (you need to trust science for you to use it). Just because it is magic it doesn't mean it can do anything or that humans know how to use it properly to make it do anything. Maybe the magic can create a clone because based on what humans can already do (give birth), but cannot replicate objects without the matrix, the whole human body (the clone). Magic can create life, but not inanimate objects. the reason behind this difference can be a mystery, or you can reveal it at the end of the book.
     
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  6. marshipan

    marshipan Contributor Contributor

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    A very religious world could make it so most people are against donating their body's various parts and pieces. Either because it is wrong of them to do such with their own body, or because they believe it is going against what is right to help someone who is sick.
     
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  7. cosmic lights

    cosmic lights Contributor Contributor

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    I love this, but then I thought. If she can correct heart failure in a clone, why not in a human as well. I'm not used to making a hard core magic system. My magic usually consists of low magic like magical animals, objects, and Shamanism. So maybe I'm having a hard think thinking in that area.

    Thank you for your interest I appreciate that and you gave me good advice. Usually the best ideas are the most tricky ones.

    My intention was to avoid religion, as I all ready have Gender inequality in my story with one character, as it just developed naturally. But it would be interesting to explore the idea of religion, Magic and Science and how they interact. They are all belief systems in a way. Maybe belief can become a theme for my story.
     
  8. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin I don't feel tardy.... Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I'd imagine that the presence of magic would obviate science and religion and wrap all three of them under the same umbrella. Trying to tell the three apart would seem problematic, but that of course wouldn't stop certain interest groups from attempting to.
     
  9. PaleoJohnathan

    PaleoJohnathan New Member

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    What if you made the clone a clean slate person, meant to be pure of problems. Maybe they can think that only a pure donor could possibly work, explaining why only clones are used, and maybe the clone doesn’t has the disease because it is the blank, empty version of the person? Maybe that’s why the people don’t consider the protagonist’s concerns because clones don’t generally have them?

    I know these are very basic ideas but maybe work around how the people in the story believe the mind relates to health and how a clone with a blank mind wouldn’t have the same problems.
     
  10. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor

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    Or it isn't a congenital problem. It could result from drugs or drinking or smoke inhalation or something. A poisoning attempt? Drinking random things form the cabinet...
     
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  11. cosmic lights

    cosmic lights Contributor Contributor

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    That being the problem just fitted in with another story-line.

    But it's hard to even do much research on the subjects in this book, I don't even know where to begin. I think maybe just work on my main character and her "Mother" the antagonist. She's not a villain, she just wants the opposite to Alice. (Alice wants to keep her heart and live and Mina's Mother wants to use it) Develop their psychology and work on a plot outline. Then, I'll have more idea of what needs researching. I tend to write about subjects that interest me, so I get bogged down in that easily.
     
  12. Saphry

    Saphry Member

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    That perhaps is where magic makes it different, creating a flawless copy.

    You can reason that magical clones have the advantages of having a 100% success rate of forming, no defects, zero risk of organ rejection, and are at optimal condition/fitness. This makes them a highly sought after option but comes at a high price, or needs a sacrifice.

    Hm, you can limit your magic system to maybe only being able to create stuff from other stuff, and nothing more. If magic could do anything, the mother could have just ask the witch to cure her daughter.
     
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  13. Jordon

    Jordon New Member

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    When it comes to organ donations in the US, there can often times be more people waiting for organs than actually people willing to give them. So maybe in your world there aren't enough people stepping up to donate their organs and they have to rely on clones to help the remaining people in need.
     
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  14. Some Guy

    Some Guy Manguage Langler Supporter Contributor

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    I also face this subject in my tale, but with pure tech. I cheat, in that my methods are intrusive but not destructive. At least not to the donors... It's end times and the dying are used to sustain the living (after last rites and induced coma). Those who are suffering can also petition for merciful release and give their body function to non-terminal cases (after a euphoric neuro-suppression - brain euthanasia). Lots of moral/ethical drama. Just think outside reality! :D
     
  15. Bluefire

    Bluefire Member

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    So, what about this makes it a fantasy novel? Is it written in the medieval ages? Does it have a certain king and queen setting? Personally, I believe the idea of the girl being a clone to Mina is a very cool plot concept. It sounds interesting, but more Sci-Fi than Fantasy. To the writer the plot will never sound right, you will always want to change the plot until you think it's perfect. I recommend you read the book series Cress. It has this sort of idea, a girl named Cress lives in New Bejing, but there is a virus that kills everyone in 5 stages and their looking for a cure. I suggest you read this, this will help you out I feel like.

    I hope I helped a little!!
     
  16. cosmic lights

    cosmic lights Contributor Contributor

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    It's set on another planet.
    Magical creatures
    Strong magic plot.
    Plus cloning has been done a lot on sci-fi and not that much in Fantasy so thought it would be fresh. Cloning is a sci-fi topic until it's not. A medieval setting isn't the only Fantasy setting used. Yup it involves King's and Queen's. Witches. I've never written sci-fi before. Tried reading a few books but could honestly never get into the genre. I don't want to write in a genre I can't even read in. Being created by magic, Alice has magic herself. I enjoy creating magic systems but learning about sci-fi technology isn't that interesting to me. If I switch the plot from magic to Science focused I'll be writing what I'm not interested in just because other people tell me to, it's not my vision anymore it starts to become other people's. Been thinking about it all day and have decided to stick with Fantasy and my own gut.
     
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  17. Bluefire

    Bluefire Member

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    Good for you, Fantasy is an amazing genre and as a fellow writer I appreciate seeing someone so patient about Fantasy Novels, I'm sure whatever you write will be fantastic.
     
  18. psychotick

    psychotick Contributor Contributor

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    Hi,

    My thought is that they used magic to create a clone because science simply isn't advanced enough to do it. Or if it's done through science maybe you get problems - eg inexact copies. Of course the other possibility is that the scientists refused to create a clone (ethical reasons?) so she had no choice but to use magic.

    You could also look into the differences between clones made through genetics and those made through magic. Could be fun if they both have problems, but different problems.

    Cheers, Greg.
     
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  19. Kaitlin Gil

    Kaitlin Gil Member

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    As far as why use magic to create a clone instead of finding a human donor, I'd think that the simple reason would be that they can't find a compatible donor. Lots of people in our reality are in need of transplants but it is near impossible to get them because of rare blood types or genetic malformations. The more rare the organ (Liver, lung, heart, etc) the harder it is to find the exact type you need. So it could just be that either they've done an extensive search and there isn't anyone that they can find that is compatible with her, or they've done a small search, haven't found anyone suitable, and therefore its just easier to do the clone, especially if they know that they are going to need multiple things and possibly other things in the future (like the heart).
     
  20. Kaitlin Gil

    Kaitlin Gil Member

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    They could alter the negatives in the clone. Keep the same DNA so that they are still compatible, but basically build an ideal version of the original.
     
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  21. Justin Attas

    Justin Attas Active Member

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    My first thought was that the original girl, Alice, was cursed in some way. Injured by magic, which would make her condition unique. Only a magical clone, holding the same cursed properties would be able to replace what she's lost.
     
  22. Seven Crowns

    Seven Crowns Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Currently Reading::
    "Alas, Babylon" by Pat Frank
    Well you've got magic, so just make a magical reason. Let's say, centuries ago a necromancer god cursed the land with reanimation. Villagers routinely have to put down zombies and such. Any organs left lying about can animate. You could have hilarious flashbacks about failures to transport organs.
     
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  23. Zombie Among Us

    Zombie Among Us Active Member

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    I've been following this thread for a bit now and I love the idea you've got going on.

    My idea looks at how magic could make a clone but couldn't make just a heart. This is a very rough sketch. Maybe one's soul is connected to their physical parts, and all physical parts must have a soul assigned to them. There's a small window where the heart can be transplanted from Alice to Mina before it dies. All conjured body parts must have a new soul attached at the time they are conjured. Since the soul must be new, it couldn't just be given to Mina when hers is removed. That's why Alice was made: to make a new soul.

    The main question here would be why exactly this is the case. Maybe the soul and the body are so incredibly intertwined that one cannot exist for long without the other. However, why must the soul be a new one? Well, I don't have any ideas there, but maybe somebody else does.

    Again, this is very rough, but perhaps it will help you brainstorm. Best of luck.
     
  24. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor

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    ^ That's some good ideatin' there.
     
  25. Some Guy

    Some Guy Manguage Langler Supporter Contributor

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    What if you turn the tables once again, and have her create her own (golem) replicant. Now she has the dilemma of killing in order to save her own hide. Twist again and have the golem kill both and take their identity. A value of life once gained thing - lose, lose, win?
     
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