HELP

Which of those editors have you used? And they aren't listing specialties... does this mean they're looking primarily at SPAG rather than developmental edits?

And did using those edits get you published? If so, where?

 

https://www.servicescape.com/editors/wickedwordsmith/94269

One Week Minimum Delivery
$3.95 USD per page
At Least 40 Pages
$160 minimum

or if smaller
4-Day Delivery
$5.95 USD per page
From 10 To 120 Pages$60-$720

used for user manuals, and other business related documents.

 

I'd be cautious about using non-fiction editors for a fiction project - the rules really are quite different. "Creative" writing allows for a lot more latitude in terms of sentence fragments and other non-standard grammar.

And what I'd really hope to be getting from an editor is more developmental, structural stuff, which, again, would require specialist knowledge in fiction editing.

I'm not against hiring editors in general. I've learned a lot from the editors I've worked with. But they're an expensive way to learn, and there are a lot of people out there calling themselves editors who really don't have the credentials to do the job well.

For this OP, she's already said that an editor is not part of the plan for financial reasons, and I think that makes sense. There are other, less expensive ways to learn the same lessons.

 

oh give me a break it was an example of playing the numbers, knock on x amount of doors eventually you get a sale, do it enough times you get a statistically measurable success rate.

 

Not true - it isn't just a numbers game. Some manuscripts have a 0% chance of ever being sold, no matter how many times they're submitted.

 

Yeah, I think this is the key point. It's a mistake to think of manuscripts as random variables... a good quality MS in a hot genre has an excellent chance of selling; a poor quality MS in a cold genre has practically no chance of selling. Submitting a poor quality MS a hundred times isn't going to significantly increase its chance of being picked up, and it's going to waste a hell of a lot of time.

I think there's a fine line to be walked between perfectionism and fatalism. Like, I do see authors who seem to holding off for far too long on trying to get published. They hold onto their MS for years, tinkering and changing and fussing with every detail. As long as they're enjoying the process, more power to them, but I think if publication is the goal, then sooner or later they're going to have to submit the damn thing. At the other extreme, though, we see people sending out crappy writing, getting rejected, self-publishing the crappy writing, and never really taking the time to improve the writing. Thinking of publishing as a random thing seems like it would encourage that second kind of behaviour.

 

point well taken, it was a suggestion on my part take it or leave it. my more passionate response was to point out there is a value added to using editors and in submitting work to publishers. even if it is just establishing a thick skin, and learning what various publishers want, or are willing to look at. Ultimately getting over the fear of submitting something because it might be rejected due to it is not 100% perfection. At least not in the beginning, and even then I've read stories wondering how in the world did this make it...

 

precisely why I was pointing to get a professional to look at your story before submitting it pay the $$$ if need be to get it done.

granted the work I did was just manuals and such, but when handing those over to a fortune 500 or fortune 50 they still expect quality work.

 

Traditionally published authors should be able to self-edit to the required standard before being assigned a free editor from their publishing company.

I work for a FTSE100 company as a writer and I have never engaged an editor to check my work, because I can produce the required quality myself.

If you like a more 'numbers' kind of answer - I know many traditionally published authors, and not a single one of them uses a paid editor.

 

Different variables, I would say it depends on the scope of the project, various resources available throughout the project, and possibly even company structure.
in my case sometimes i had access to technical writers and at other times it was just me, and I recognize I'm not all that good with rules, and such.
so, yeah I'm going to have it looked at by a 3rd party. Give me requirements or data to analyze and I'll make them do whatever you like. Writing at a technical level, not my forte.

 

You're not a technical writer and they're giving you technical writing to do? Idiots! Such false economy, since of course you're going to need outside help. :S

Yeah... my company are smart so they employ, you know, writers to do the writing.

 

It is what it is, I can get most of it done, but I do not consider myself a professional writer. I do know I learned a lot from having the manuals edited properly, but there is still a tremendous gap, in knowledge and capacities. At this point, I can write a fairly decent manual, but I am nowhere near trusting myself to say this can be submitted asis to a client. If they are not paying for it and its an internal version type deal, then maybe as a one off situation.

what can I say billion dollar company pinching pennies, the clients still have expectations though.

 

I understand that sending unfinished business to someone is an error. She kept bugging me to send it to her, I did in fact gave her fair warning. But still, I do trust her and I know she's just one person. I rather have her read a crappy chapter than a finished crappy novel lol.

Okay, so I exaggerated, I know how to write and speak fluently but when it comes to making a paragraph in my draft it drains me. Because I find myself searching through my mind for words a lot of the times and forget to write coherent sentences. Which in a way I can always go back to. I don't know I guess it's in my nature to second guess myself . I guess I just write like a lunatic and forget to punctuate. Then when I'm reading I'm like What the hell was this suppose to mean. lol

 

I understand that to become a good writer I have to pay to get my work reviewed. I don't know about you but if I'm not comfortable with the draft I have on my hands I'm not going to pay someone to tell me it's a crappy start when I know for a fact that it is crappy. I don't need a professional to tell me I suck haha I rather have that done to me when I'm content with my finished MS and decided to find an editor to publish. I know thick skin gets develop but when in doubt, seek your friends. My friends know they can be brutally honest with me because I'm brutally honest with them.

 

I agree with most of your post, but I don't think you should pay to get your work reviewed at any point, not unless you decide to self-publish.

There are exceptions, and people I know who've decided to pay for an edit pre-submission to agents. But this is the exception, not the rule. I certainly wouldn't say you have to pay anyone in order to become a good writer.

 

I skipped over the words because I was tired of the same lovey dovey descriptions of characters or scenery. And You're absolutely right. Writing is a twist from actual reading. I mean as a reader you start to get to know your MC. As a writer, they become part of you even the characteristics about certain characters reflects on you. And you're living in the story even though you're shopping or cooking. Your mind is always on your plot or a dialogue, well at least for me.

1/Write your story: In the process
2/Read your story (without editing): Who can do this? Like really, has someone gone through their story and resist not to edit?
3/Read a book: I recently bought Donna Tartt - The Secret History, and I cant find myself sitting down to read it because the font they used and the size hurts my eyes. if that's even possible. they're extra small and I'm kind of blind I need to find another book to read though. (lol)
4/ (2) Probably did it already...with no intention.
5/I'm not finished with the one I have on my hands and for me at least, if I start another story the one I have underway will be left in my One Drive slowly dying. I have like 6 started stories on my documents and none of them are finished, the most developed on is eleven chapters. I go tired of it and yup...It's been there since 2015.

 

I know. That's why for me it's not an option.

 

Okay... I'm a bit confused... I was responding to you saying "I understand that to become a good writer I have to pay to get my work reviewed." If you believe that you have to pay, and you can't afford to pay, that must be really discouraging... so I just wanted to make it crystal clear that you don't have to pay. The vast majority of published authors (with publishers, not self-publishers) do not pay to get their work edited and have never paid to get their work edited. It's the furthest thing from mandatory.

If you already knew that and were just being polite to another poster, sorry for blowing your cover! But I wanted to be sure you (and anyone else who reads this thread) knew it.

 

hahaha no, that's okay. I've already addressed this. For me it's not an option to pay for something that I know is in heavy need of work. Also (you did blew my cover) hahaha

No but for real. I know what you mean. And I don't intent on paying someone to critique me when my friends do it for free lol. Also I can always post in the workshop and I guarantee you that I won't need no editors. you guys help a lot.

 

I think you can also learn to be brutally honest with yourself before you ever start handing it around.

You have finished your story. Put it away for a while. Months, maybe. And work on something else. When you've stopped thinking about your finished story, then go back. Re-read it, starting from the very beginning, with pen in hand to note problem areas. Don't stop to try to fix them then and there ...just note the problems with a quick couple of words so you'll know what the problem is. It's important to KEEP READING. What you want to do is get a feel for your whole story.

If you get to a bit that you want to skip over ...make a note (wanna skip this, or something like that.) Make a note of where your interest picks up again. Keep going. Don't stop until you reach the end. (I mean, stop for meals etc ...but don't start working on changes until you've re-read the whole thing.) This is the run-through that will tell you what you've got.

Give yourself some time to think about it. Are there structural problems? Does one part go on too long, while another part goes by too fast? Make a few notes about that sort of issue. Did you notice any plot holes? If you did, how would you plug them?

Are you happy with your characters? If not, what do you think is wrong? Be as specific as you can be. "He thinks too much when he should be doing something." "He's coming across as uncaring, when he's actually shy." How do you make his actions more sympathetic. Etc.

Once you've thought about it and rejigged, re-wrote, cut and/or added to the piece—THEN start editing word choice, sentence structure, etc. By this time, you'll be feeling quite ruthless and won't find it all that hard to cut out the bad stuff, and you'll probably quickly see what you should have done instead and how to fix it. Keep going, till you've gone through the whole story again. Make it as good as you possibly can. Keep in mind that's the goal. Not to find mistakes and bewail them, but to make the story better.

Once you've polished it shiny, THEN ...pull in a couple of beta readers who are willing to read the whole thing. And start working with them. Do they flag up problems you didn't see? Do they 'get' what you're trying to do? Have they got some good suggestions?

A little tip here ...two 'don'ts—

1) Don't give your first draft to all the people who said they wanted to read it. Give it to only a few the first time. Work with what they tell you. Then move on and give the revised version to a few new readers, rinse and repeat. See if the new readers flag up the same problems your previous ones did. If not, you've probably solved those problems.

2) Don't expect your betas to want to read your story again to admire your changes. Thank them for their time, but move on to new betas. (Obviously if they ASK to re-read it, that's fine.) But don't expect the same betas to keep re-reading your story. They will start to hate your story, or worse yet, will just leave you dangling and not respond. Move on, and learn from new people.

 

Good advise. You have a very good point, Thank You.