1. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Historical Question - wagon trains, mules, etc.

    Discussion in 'Research' started by BayView, Apr 22, 2017.

    I'm writing the first few chapters of a story on spec, and I have a character I need to end up lost and alone on the trail to California in 1855. She has the mules from her wagon, her wagon, still with quite a few supplies in it, and her horse.

    I'm wondering about having her load the supplies that still remain onto the mules and leaving the wagon behind. Apparently most travellers didn't ride in the wagons or sleep in the wagons, so I think they were mostly useful as a way to carry supplies, but if she's near the end of the journey (in the Sierra Madres) she wouldn't have that many supplies left anyway, and it seems like she'd make better time with just pack mules.

    Am I missing something obvious, here?
     
  2. Elven Candy

    Elven Candy Pay no attention to the foot in my mouth Contributor

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    Don't forget the expense of replacing the wagon, and the wagon cover could be used to protect the travelers from rain. In the Laura Ingalls book The Little House on the Prairie, Pa used the wagon cover for a temporary roof on their log cabin, and he used the wagon itself to haul logs (for the cabin and for firewood). If she had the option to keep the wagon, I'd think she'd keep it. If she ditches it, she's really going to wish she'd kept it once she reaches her destination.
     
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  3. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Yeah, this. It's an object of utility and value. Those 19th century economies were heavily based on the barter system, especially out West where banks and currency hadn't quite established an economic foothold yet. I'm no expert on this, but I'd think that a functioning wagon might be worth more than its weight in gold in certain townships. That whole what good is the money if you can't eat it thing.
     
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  4. Infel

    Infel Contributor Contributor

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    Umm, also a wagon, while by no means the most effective defense in the world, is really your only shelter against things like rain...

    ...and bears.

    If making better time is the only thing you're worried about, I'd say the pros of having it outweigh the cons. Also, since you get to ride in it, you don't get as tired.
     
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  5. Dnaiel

    Dnaiel Senior Member

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    How does a wagon protect from bears?
     
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  6. Infel

    Infel Contributor Contributor

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    Well, its 3 inches of wood you wouldn't normally have, right? Couldn't you... I dunno, hide underneath it? ...maybe?

    I confess I've never been attacked by a bear with only a wagon as defense.
     
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  7. Dnaiel

    Dnaiel Senior Member

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    Well, I just looked at some pics via google images and I suppose it would depend on the wagon and the bear. Maybe not underneath one, but actually inside a heavy Conestoga wagon with a small bear. Though, we have mules for this wagon, so it's going to be light duty without lots of mules. I guess if she had a torch and some fire handy. Personally, I'd head for a tree if possible -- the wide ones bears can't wrap their paws around but with light branches to climb. But attached mules are gonna be an easy snack for the bear, so that would be horrible to be right next to.
     
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  8. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I've never been attacked but I've been confronted/accosted/taunted by them before. Usually they run at the first sight of humans but some can be bold. Or assholes. They'll break through doors to get into your house if they smell food, so I'm not sure how effective a wagon would be. And they can climb just about anything. I've seen the bastards hanging out thirty feet above my driveway. It's like, "Come on bear-dude, what the hell?" And these are the "little" black bears. 150-175lb. I think California has the brown bears, which are much bigger. I think you'd be screwed on the wagon if the bear was motivated enough. Don't think of running either. They're nearly as fast as horses and love to chase things. The forest rangers tell you to raise up as tall as you can and make as much noise as possible.
     
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  9. Infel

    Infel Contributor Contributor

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    Boy, with all this new info, sounds like you'd bear-ly make it out alive.

    *sunglasses on*
     
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  10. Elven Candy

    Elven Candy Pay no attention to the foot in my mouth Contributor

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    Yeah but most people moving out west had one guarantee against bears: a gun. I don't think many people would survive without them unless they were in a wagon train with people who did. With bears, wolves, cougars, and trouble-making humans, it was dangerous to move out west even with a gun.
     
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  11. Dnaiel

    Dnaiel Senior Member

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    Most of the regular guns they had back then would've been more dangerous than helpful with large bears. That's still true today. Researchers looked over attacks in modern times where people used chemical deterrents and others used guns. In both cases when bears attacked, injuries were pretty bad, but gun shot wounds to the bears resulted in much greater injuries. But still, people back then wouldn't have known that and may have thought their guns would protect them thoroughly.
     
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  12. Iain Sparrow

    Iain Sparrow Banned Contributor

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    First of all, why would this woman be lost and alone?
    If she has a wagon, then she must be on a well-worn wagon route, which means she isn't lost.
     
  13. Dnaiel

    Dnaiel Senior Member

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    While it's been a while since I drove a wagon, I'm pretty sure they can go off-road. And they kinda have to if settlers want to expand into the territories. Also, it doesn't take long for treaded roads to be overgrown and erased by nature.
     
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  14. Dnaiel

    Dnaiel Senior Member

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    Oh wow. Some treaded roads do last. Looks like it depends on how much they were used and the terrain. I see a pic of one about a hundred years old. Though, these are heavily traveled routes.

    Found a book, Brides of the Old West, via Google.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=la2rCQAAQBAJ&pg=PT463&lpg=PT463#v=onepage&q&f=false

    Crossing the crucible of sand speckled with prickly creosote and mesquite shrubs, the temperature climbed with the merciless sun. The bone-weary emigrants decided to rest during the day under the meager shade of canvas or wagon and journey at night, to spare the animals. But at least half a dozen beasts perished anyway, dropping right where they stood in the extreme scorching temperatures. People began abandoning wagons and doubling what remains of their teams.

    Goes on to describe that they packed tighter into other wagons.
     
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  15. Iain Sparrow

    Iain Sparrow Banned Contributor

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    Not on some of the most well used wagon trails.
    Even today, there are places you can still see the wheel ruts from the thousands of wagons that past through well over a century ago. If the story takes place in 1855, there is no possible way you could be lost, and still be on a wagon trail. Nor will you get very far taking a wagon "off road". You'd work your draft animals to exhaustion, and for what purpose? I've hiked alone in Northern California, and used nothing more than a compass for direction, and was never lost for long. The people of that time would have been far more capable than I, a city boy, at traversing the wilds.
     
  16. Dnaiel

    Dnaiel Senior Member

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    That depends on the purpose of the travel. For untreaded terrain, you add more mules. Settlers on the new frontier starting out didn't have those roads. I guess in that sense, you would kinda be looking to get lost. It also depends on the weather. A few inches of snow would stay travel if there was a positive destination.

    And your hikes with but a compass would be useless without a map if you're going sufficiently far into the territories. I would assume that the maps available to the character go as far as 1850. A bulk of the most detailed maps in those days were for the railroad companies and ditch projects.
     
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  17. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Random thoughts. I don't know the answers.

    - How much work is it to load up a mule? Does the mule have to be unloaded to rest at night?
    - Do mules ever wander off, possibly carrying all the supplies? (I realize they'd be tied up, but if they supplies are in the wagon that risk is eliminated entirely.)
    - Is it possible that travelers didn't sleep in the wagon just because the wagon was full but that sleeping in the wagon when empty would still be really nice?
    - Does she have much money? Could selling the wagon provide critical cash?
    - You mention that people rarely slept in the wagon. Would daytime shelter from the sun be an issue?
    - There's also the psychological aspect of "home". Whether people normally slept in the thing or not, it is a chamber with a "roof", and giving that up would be hard.
    - If she packed on the assumption that her possessions would be protected by the wagon and roof, would she have enough protection for them (for example, from rain) on muleback?
    - How lost is she? If she has a clear idea of where she's going, that seems to argue more in favor of animals-only. If she might be out there wandering for weeks anyway, that might lean toward keeping the shelter of the wagon.
    - Does it take different skills to herd the three animals without the wagon versus with the wagon? Which skills does she have?
    - If you just need to get her off the wagon for plot reasons, you could break an axle or something.

    That's all I've got.

    Edited to add: A quick glance at a random web page (otherwise unhelpful on the question; I realize that you've probably already seen All The Web Pages) noted that wagon trains timed their departure so that there would be grazing grass for the animals. So she could be running into a seasonal deadline.

    Edited again to add: Also, I don't know if pulling a wagon is more or less work for a mule than carrying the contents of that wagon on their backs. So while she might get better speed due to being freed of some terrain issues, she might get poorer speed due to more-tired animals. (I realize that the wagon is a whole lot of weight, but, it's sitting on the ground, and wheels...I dunno.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
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  18. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    A lot would depend on the terrain, the time of year and the weather. Wagons were difficult going if the way wasn't reasonably smooth, and if she's riding a horse and also dealing with mules and a wagon in trackless wilderness, she'll certainly have her hands full. She would probably need to ride the wagon and drive the mules instead, while tying her horse on behind. Mules are much more sure-footed than horses, so they'd be a good choice in mountainous terrain. The wagon? It would depend on how adept she was at handling it.

    I wish I could be more help, and it's frustrating to me that I'm not. I got rid of tons of books last year that dealt with exactly the sort of thing you're looking for, because, in essence, I bought them by mistake. My own western research deals with Montana and Kansas in the years 1873-1886. Lots had changed by that time, and I found the earlier accounts (and those dealing with California and Oregon) to be of little use to me. Damn!

    One book I did keep is this one. It's a great initial resource guide. The information in the book is sometimes useful ...sometimes either too general or too specific to be useful. But what IS useful is the number of links the book gives (in each section) that can tell you more of what you want to know. It's not expensive, and I highly recommend it. You can still get it on Amazon.

    west.png
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
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  19. Quanta

    Quanta Senior Member

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    If she's still on one of the main trails, I agree that she wouldn't be lost; there seems to have been a lot of traffic in those times. Keeping the wagon would make more sense, I think, than loading and unloading the mules everyday. If she somehow veered off the main trail and encountered terrain too rugged for a wagon, or if perhaps one of her mules got injured or ran away, then, she'd be forced to pack whatever she can and leave the wagon behind.
    I don't know if she's encountering any bears, but I think her animals would be her best protection by warning her of a predator's approach and giving her time to prepare to defend herself.
     
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  20. BogLady

    BogLady Active Member

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    I have to agree the direction she takes to keep or lose the wagon depends on many things. What direction do you want it to go?

    1. What is the expectation when she gets where she is going? Will there be shelter waiting for her or will the wagon have to be her shelter.
    2. What exactly is in the wagon? Pots, pans, furniture, clothing as well as food stuffs? Most pioneers took everything they owned in the wagon including tubs of china, great-grandma's buffet, and mirror, or even a piano from time to time or a stove. Not putting a stove on a mule's back, nor would you leave it behind if you didn't have to.
    3. If she is near the end of the trip, she has had plenty of time to get used to handling the mules, horse and wagon so should be comfortable with all of it. she would have learned about this early on in the trip, if she had not come from a farm background and already was familiar.
    4. Also at this point in the trip, she would also know to keep a fire going at night to help defer bears and other wildlife. If a bear, wolf or coyote wanted more than just the food stuffs in the wagon or left on the fire, they would go after the horse or mules first.
     
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  21. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    You guys have given me lots of ideas - thanks!

    I think I've written past this stage, at least for the first draft of things - I took the decision away from her by making her unable to reattach the wagon wheels on her own (apparently they were taken off and soaked any chance there was, as if the wood dried out it would separate from the metal of the wheels. So she'll have to proceed without the wagon.

    She can do it!

    And that resource looks great, @jannert - I'm writing this as a proposal for a spec job, so I won't buy it until I know if I got the job... but if I do, it's top of my shopping list!

    Thanks!
     
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  22. Elven Candy

    Elven Candy Pay no attention to the foot in my mouth Contributor

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    Wow, I had no idea! One really does learn something new every day :D
     
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  23. JCC

    JCC New Member

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    BayView, I think you made a good choice to make her "have" to leave it behind instead of choosing to. As a reader, I'd want a very convincing reason why she had no choice but to leave it behind, seeing as though in most cases it would have been kept. And the choice would have to be better than because she's an incapable female and can't figure out basic repairs and maintenance (unless there's a good reason for that which is addressed in the story -- such as that she was a wealthy protected woman from back east... until now). Regarding the mules, and especially the horse, hopefully you have knowledge or will be researching how those animals were, and need to be handled to keep them alive as she journeys on. Here's one link to an article on our blog for researching equine for fantasy and fiction. but there's lots more online and in libraries, too: http://www.great-group-activities.com/fantasy-writing-research-horses.html
     
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  24. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Horses I know about first-hand, and I think I'm going to separate her from the mules pretty quick.

    But thanks for checking!
     
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