How can I make my protagonist interesting?

Okay thanks. But lots of serial killers in movies do not have logical motivation. Buffalo Bill in Silence of the Lambs lost his sanity because he couldn't become a woman. But his supposed solution to the problem wouldn't have helped him really. And John Doe in Seven felt so passionate about the seven deadly sins, that he was willing to kill for it. They didn't even give him much of a past to explain it. So I feel that I do not need a lot of motivation compared to most movie serial killers. If I need more, is their anything else I can do?

The abusive father is one way to go, but since loneliness and involuntary celibacy is a big theme in the story, I feel that whatever reason she has, it has to be related to those.

As far as showing the hero's popularity with the opposite sex, in the first act, I can either start out with a bang, and then show the hero investigating the murders, then at the end of the first act around page 26, I can then have him take a breather and show his seduction scene.

Or I can show the seduction first, around page 20, or even page 18, but not sure. What is better when it comes to introducing the personal flaws or goals of the main character? Is pacing more important, when deciding the order of opening scenes, or is introducing that flaw the most important and I should as early as possible even if the throws the pacing off a little?

 

No. That's not why he lost his sanity. You said these things before. I responded to them, in this very thread. Did you even read my post? Do you understand the difference between

1) A character losing his sanity due to a childhood of intensive constant abuse and, as a coping mechanism, latching on to the idea that being a woman would make it all better.
versus
2) A character who has a perfectly normal upbringing but loses his sanity "because he couldn't become a woman."

?

Can't you see any difference at all between these two?

 

Oh yes, sorry I missed that post before. Sorry. Okay thanks. I see the difference. I could go with the abused childhood route, but it seems so cliched. In Seven I do not recall them mentioning an explanation really, and left the mystery up to the viewer I thought. But if I need an explanation instead of leaving it up to mystery, then I will do so. The abusive father could work.

 

You weren't leaving it as a mystery. You said "Her loneliness and angst towards the opposite sex causes her to go crazy and take desperate measures., including murder."

Leaving it as a mystery would be better than the implausible idea that a girl who isn't popular with boys will become a murdering psychopath. I don't think that you ever answered my question: Do you feel that a teenage boy who isn't popular with girls would, as a result, become a murdering psychopath? If you yourself weren't popular with girls in high school, do you feel that that would have been enough reason for you to commit murder? If not, then why is it enough reason for this character?

But, yes, having a plausible reason is better than either not knowing or "knowing" something that is so implausible. You don't necessarily have to explain the reason to the reader, but you should know it. If you don't know what's in the character's mind, then the character isn't a character, she's just a weapon with arms and legs; she might as well be a robot.

 

Okay thanks, that helps a lot seeing it that way. I will come up with a reason then definitely. Perhaps I could do some psychological reasearch into this. I will go with the abusive father if that is best, but as far as it being a reason for the character, it feels like their is something missing still, and I should explore further.

As far as seeing it the same way with a teenage boy, the answer would be yes, if the character was written that way. As for me personally, no it wouldn't have been enough reason for me to commit murder.

 

Yep, I think some research or thinking through of the character would be good.

If there wasn't enough reason for you, then you accept that there needs to be a reason. There needs to be something different about the character, if a stress that everyone else could deal with, causes them to commit murder.

Let's imagine Fred, a thirty-year-old man who, in his childhood, was abused and taunted about food. His mother kept him constantly hungry, and would give him food and then snatch it away for the smallest of offenses, or no offense at all. She would often give the snatched-away food to the dog, or throw it away. Sometimes he'd get up in the middle of the night to dig the thrown away food out of the trash, and his mother would discover him and punish him for that. He spent his childhood in a constant state of hunger and desperation for food.

One day at a birthday lunch at the office, Fred takes the last egg roll, and a co-worker playfully snatches it off his plate. Fred attacks the co-worker. Fred ends up in jail and the coworker ends up in the hospital.

Would you say that Fred attacked his coworker "because" the coworker stole an egg roll? "Because" he was hungry? Or would you say that the egg roll incident triggered issues that came long, long before the egg roll did?

 

Sorry to jump in, you already have a lot of amazing feedback and advice.

But just a thought....

What if this cop (your protagonist) connects with this 'crazy girl' for another reason. Let's say he had a daughter who went off the rails herself. He didn't do all he could to help/save her. His daughter either kills herself or ends up murdered.
As a cop he's left feeling ashamed and useless, he might even hit the drink. His wife leaves him, his life is meaningless without his family. That might be one reason for him becoming this 'ladies man' you want him to be.

He could see this 'crazy girl' as his second chance, his way to turn himself around. To help/save her, the way he couldn't save his daughter. To prove him self worthy of being a cop to his co-workers or even win his wife back.

Another twist could be, that his daughter isn't dead, she went missing. He could end up finding her throughout his investigation into this 'crazy girl'. Or even worse... his daughter is somehow mixed up/friends with this 'crazy girl'. Once the 'crazy girl' finds out that her friends dad is investigating her, she kills her or uses her as emotional blackmail.

Just an idea, good luck

 

The antagonist and the shadow are usually the same thing, but not always. The antagonist is the main opposition to the protagonist. The shadow brings a lot of conflict to the protagonist (even if it's not necessarily the main conflict) because they are so different, yet so relatable (imo anyway).

So, let's take Dragonball Z as an example lol. The main character is obviously Goku and for each arc, you get a different antagonist. So on Namek, it's Frieza -- he's the guy who's trying to take over the universe -- Goku's there to stop him. Is he the shadow though? I don't think so. It's a reach. They're different, but not in the right way. Goku can't relate that power-hungry conquerer much at all. I don't think there's much internal conflict between those two.

Vegeta on the other hand is a classic shadow. Here's how they're similar: Like Goku, he's one of the last surviving Saiyan orphans and they love to fight. They disagree a lot, but they understand each other. Here's how Goku and Vegeta are different: Goku's friendly and compassionate, Vegeta's snarky and selfish. Goku was raised supportively as an earthling, Vegeta was raised travelling through space, working for the murderer of his loved ones. Goku's focused on saving the world, Vegeta would jeopardise everything just to beat Goku. You see how this works? Goku and Vegeta are a pair; Goku and Frieza are not. So if the girl is your Vegeta, who's your Goku? What's he like?

On your opening, I think you should trust your instincts and go with the one that flows better. Having said that, I think it's important to reveal aspects of your protagonists' character early. First impressions count for a lot in fiction. So maybe just show a few things here and there so your reader can get an idea, but not so much that it slows down the action.

 

Okay thanks. I have been told have my main character have a wife and daughter before, but with the plot I have, it just doesn't make a lot of time for that. He has a love and it ends up going sour, when he gets revenge on the antagonist. But I wasn't planning on him leaving a daughter behind, cause it makes the motive of revenge less convincing, if you have a daughter to leave behind, as oppose to not, right?

I haven't actually ever seen Dragonball Z, and do not know much about it lol. I see what you mean though. As for my opening and which one flows better, I feel that I should introduce the seduction and the love interest character, in the 8th sequence, which would start around page 26. But if that's too far in, I could start at that around page 18, which is the third sequence, maybe. Anything sooner then that, I think would slow down the pacing, plus I am already putting explanations as to why the villain is doing what she is doing on hold, and the audience will be left wondering, and may think that the seduction scene will throw them off if I put it in between the case, when the cops are trying to figure her out. But since it's the protagonist, and it's important to introduce that on early, perhaps I should in the third sequence, on page 18.

It's just once the case takes off and the cops know it's a pattern and she's going to kill or harm again, they want to figure out who she is, and fast. So they work a whole day of investigating for the first act. I was planning on waiting till the day was over, where he got to out and relax, before he seduces her on his own time.

But maybe she could come on a police ride along, since she is a journalist who is covering the case, I was thinking of making her. But I don't know if she would be allowed to go on for such a busy case, where he has to put arrested suspects in the car with her, as oppose to just a ride along, any other day, when it's not a busy emergency. What do you think?

 

I'm not clear on what the seduction scene is for. If you just want to communicate that he's popular with women, there are plenty of ways to do that, with a paragraph or two.

 

Well she is also a main character, and plays a role, in helping him along the way. Well trying to help but failing, since he chooses revenge in the end.

 

I got entirely lost. Not that I really need to understand; it's your story.

 

Fair enough, if it doesn’t work for your plot then just disregard the idea.

But I wasn’t suggesting that he have a wife or even a daughter in the present day of your plot, my suggestion was aimed for back-story. To add depth and interest to your character, as you mentioned that your protagonist was a little boring and flat, until he get the case.

 

Oh okay, I see your point. I was thinking maybe of having him so that he use to be like the villain and having trouble but he remolded himelf, and now takes his love life for granted. Perhaps I could explore more back story there.

As for the seduction scene, it serves to purposes. To show what he is like in opposite to the antagonist, and it introduces the relationship with the main love interest, that carries a lot of the rest of his character development for the story.

I could write a whole new scene where he is off duty before being put back onto the case, around page 18, but I didn't want to cause since I am producing the movie myself, I want to save on locations in the shoot. If I introduce the love interest earlier, I would have to do it in a different way, with a different location, so that's another scene in itself. I don't think it would make as much sense for her to come on a ride along, cause since she is covering the case, as a journalist, it may mean that the suspects being arrested, are having their privacy being invaded in some way legally?

 

oh it's a movie!
this character of yours sounds like Lucas Hood from Banshee.

you should watch or read-up on Banshee, it will give you some good ideas for this character.

 

Oh yes, sorry it's a screenplay. I haven't seen Banshee but the way you describe the character, sounds completely different from mine but I will check it out. Thanks.

As far as introducing background goes, how early in the script should I do that. In the Silence of the Lambs for example, Clarice Starling wanting to redeem her childhood is actually introduced quite late into the story. So what was it about her that made her an interesting character, before her personal life for wanting the lambs' screaming to stop, is revealed?

 

I've never tried screen-plays so I don't know how it compares.

I suppose it depends on how significant or in-depth the back-story, as to how early or if at all you introduce it.

For me, back-story is the fundamental making of my characters. I research and build up in-depth character profiles. I know them inside-out, like I would a member of my own family (mostly the main characters but often the background ones too). Only then can I write them.

I don't introduce the characters back-story overtly. The characters ARE their back-story.

So in answer to your question, the back-story is there from the beginning. Its in your characters gestures and ticks, their speech, it's who they are.

I would only outright mention points of their past, if it is relevant to my plot.

I recently read a book in which the main character had OCD. They would count and perform compulsive habits. The reason for this characters anxiety wasn't given until the last few chapters. But that didn't matter to me, it made that character interesting and likeable.

My point is Complex characters are interesting and complex equals baggage in the form of back-story.

But it also depends on what works for you. I write character driven stories, hence the attention to detail.

Its just an observation, but it sounds like you are plot driven. And theres nothing wrong with that! But your plot seems fixed and your creating your characters to fit it (there's no write or wrong way)

 

Okay thanks. I got some feedback from other writers who read a draft, and they said the same thing. The plot is fixed. It is true, that I came up with lots of parts of the plot first, cause I wanted to build towards a certain ending. I then had to create characters to fit the plot. They say that they feel they do not get to know the characters as a result.