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How do you avoid the "edgelord" trope, when entering the "grimdark" subgenre?

Discussion in 'General Writing' started by Oldmanofthemountain, May 2, 2021.

  1. Oldmanofthemountain

    Oldmanofthemountain Member

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    If I ever become a professional writer in the far future, botched and widely mocked passages from ASOIAF and 50 Shades of Grey are reasons why I'll never touch sex scenes with a 39 and a half foot pool.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2021
  2. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    I put it down to the elaborate dreamcatcher above George’s bed:

    072B6AD7-2325-4F75-9323-96598137A6B7.jpeg
     
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  3. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor

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    So that's where grimdark came from! When romance got cleaned up and went all legit, its dark anarchic double had to pop up somewhere. It's like a game of Whack-A Mole. :bigcool:
     
  4. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    can we all remember that we're not in the erotica sub forum folks... theres kids about so lets leave the fat pink masts out of it shall we ?
     
  5. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    Well if anyone is gonna drag a thread into the gutter you know it'll be me. I appreciate the reminder. :friend:
     
  6. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor

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    Admire? It's cheap thrill entertainment. It's nudity, sex, blood and violence. It's fun, sure, but hardly admirable.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
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  7. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor

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    Anyway, personally I believe don't try to avoid tropes or cliches if they work for the story and fit naturally. My understanding of edge-lord is bordering on technically acceptable / legal without going over, but close enough to be morally ambiguous. Pushing the boundaries without skirting over. If that fits the justifications for your character, that's ok. No reason to avoid just because it may be a trope.
     
  8. Bone2pick

    Bone2pick Assertive Neophyte Contributor

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    Needless to say I disagree with your estimation of it, and likely many other things.
     
  9. Catriona Grace

    Catriona Grace Member

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    :superlaugh:

    Wait... this was a serious passage in a serious book?

    :superlaugh::superlaugh::superlaugh:
     
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  10. Oldmanofthemountain

    Oldmanofthemountain Member

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    As you might imagine, those passages are pretty much memes within the ASOIAF fandom. Though, I probably shouldn't add much more than that, as per the admin's wishes.
     
  11. Malum

    Malum Offline Supporter

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    A lot of people considered LeafyIsHere to be a pioneer of what it meant to be an 'edgelord'. His return to Youtube was glorious, although he's banned now...
     
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  12. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Sorry, cats.

    I can delete my post if needed.
     
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  13. Oldmanofthemountain

    Oldmanofthemountain Member

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    I don't think you can delete posts in this forum, but the mods can remove it if they like it violates community rules. Or at least that was what I was told, when I unknowingly violated community rules when I posted a story of mine for a critic without critiquing other works first, when I first became a member.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
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  14. Le Panda Du Mal

    Le Panda Du Mal Active Member

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    Sounds less "grimdark" to me and more classic gritty sword and sorcery like Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser or Robert E Howard's Conan stories. The heroes are more or less amoral, spending most of their time as thieves or outlaws of some sort, self-preservation being their primary motivation. If they end up doing anything heroic it tends to be because they stumbled into it rather than high ideals.

    I believe the "rogue" character class of classic roleplaying games was based chiefly on Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
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  15. Oldmanofthemountain

    Oldmanofthemountain Member

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    Thanks for your response, and you have some valid points. However, how I differentiate the character(s) in my head from Conan (I never heard of Fafhrd, so I don't know much about the character), is that they are far more cruel and really don't have any boundaries on whom they hurt. Other then that, now that you mention it, the criminals of my descriptions are pretty similar to Conan and Fafhrd.
     
  16. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor

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    Hey, it's good to run across somebody in here who's familiar with Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, one of my favorite series. I gotta say though, to a large extent it was conceived and created as a sort of anti-Conan. that was Lieber's express purpose, because he liked aspects of Conan's world and character, but didn't like how dark and gritty and grim the character was. So he deliberately made Fafhrd and the Mouser more whimsical and lighter in tone.

    Where Conan is brutal and merciless, they're far more humanistic. Fafhrd is a barbarian, yes, but one who always dreamed of going south to civilization and learning how to blend in there (and he does it). So while he does have the barbarian instincts and can fall back on them in a pinch, it's fairly rare and done humorously.

    Actually though, despite his witty repartee and gallant manner, the Gray Mouser is the dangerous and deadly one. He grew up in the slums as a thief and has a real nasty turn of character, though it's usually well hidden. And the world of Nehwon (No-when spelled backwards) does have its wild areas, but it's altogether a less brutal and dark place than Conan's world.
     
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  17. Le Panda Du Mal

    Le Panda Du Mal Active Member

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    I’ll admit it’s been about 20 years since I read the Fafhrd and Gray Mouser stories (in the very nice White Wolf omnibus editions) so my recollection could be quite fuzzy
     
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  18. Le Panda Du Mal

    Le Panda Du Mal Active Member

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    “Grimdark” to me seems more about general setting than characters. Like the Warhammer 40K world, Moorcock’s Elric saga, or, for a more literary example, Gene Wolfe’s Book of the New Sun. I guess CAS’ Zothique would qualify as grimdark too. All of these settings can in fact have very heroic characters- it’s just that their ideals end up crashing into pieces against the reality they inhabit.
     
  19. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    WH40K is considered grimdark.
    It really is more about atmosphere, being dreary, depressing, and hopeless.
    All while most characters have a pessimistic vibe about them, with a few
    who try to look on the bright side of how crap their situation is. It isn't
    about quips/oneliners and being ultra violent. More simply gloom and doom,
    chaos and wanton destruction are optional. The Road could be considered
    grimdark. They don't always have an ambiguous or negative ending, but
    it is the norm. They can have comedic elements to give the reader a little
    bit of levity to the whole depressing storyline. But not a lot. Too much
    comedy and it is more like a dark comedy, and not grimdark. Though you
    can have bright colors, and still be depressing (Check out We Happy Few).
    Though some have elements of a dystopian bent, or run with it headlong.
    Only difference is things don't get better, but can take a turn for the worse.
    Good luck and happy writing. :supersmile:
     
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  20. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor

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    Best part lol!
     
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  21. naruzeldamaster

    naruzeldamaster Active Member

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    I think the trap to avoid is that violence and swearing does not make things 'dark'
    That's why people STILL laugh at Shadow The Hedgehog (the game not the character) because they did dark/edgy shit for the sake of it to the point of hilarity. (At no point can I imagine a sonic character actually swearing, I don't care if Shadow is an artificial lifeform who happens to look like sonic)

    You can't really make things 'darker' without some violence though, but violence in and of itself (as in brutal stuff for the sake of being there) is just mindless gore. It's why I don't consider mortal kombat very 'dark' because the gore and such is almost hilarious. (not the actual deaths and stuff, but hilarious how insane it is)

    I'm a huge believer in 'a time and a place for everything' and that holds true for Violence of all kinds. But too much of it and it becomes about as believable as an SNL sketch.
     
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  22. Bone2pick

    Bone2pick Assertive Neophyte Contributor

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    I could see how someone might say that, but that's not how I think of the genre. For me, grimdark stories—besides having ugly, cruel, and unjust settings—are action/violence heavy. I'll admit that "heavy" is subjective, but my point is that a certain amount of gritty and thrilling violence needs to be shown in order to be a proper example of the genre.
     
  23. Teladan

    Teladan On the outside looking in. Contributor

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    Behold grimdark incarnate.
    [​IMG]
     
  24. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 12/210 MP: 0/130 Contributor

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    Isn't that just gothic fantasy?
     
  25. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 12/210 MP: 0/130 Contributor

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    I remember the love interest being eaten by rats. That was pretty grimdark.
     

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