How do you deal with such a sedentary hobby

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Lae, Apr 23, 2014.

  1. T.Trian

    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,253
    Likes Received:
    1,470
    Location:
    Mushroom Land
    It does appear to be hard to diagnose; took years in my case, especially since I was around 24 when the problems first started, i.e. pretty young for DDD. I've discussed possible reasons with several doctors, physiatrists, physiotherapists, orthopedists etc. and the common consensus seems to be that some people are just dealt a bad hand at birth and things like excessive training (too often with too big weights / too long sets) with less than perfect technique combined with lots of sitting (at school and work in addition to all the sitting we do at home when writing, eating, watching TV etc) may have contributed to the problem but don't explain it since plenty of people train with horrible technique / sit a lot with no or only mild back problems.

    The weird thing is, bad backs don't really run in my family, I've always had great posture in normal life, i.e. walking / standing around etc. (people often comment on it), and I've exercised regularly since I was 6yo, so maybe it's just a genetic glitch or some such.


    There's something very Womanly, in this earthy sort of way, about the scent of a stable-fresh girl. :D

    If you think about places like MMA / boxing / wrestling gyms (and their locker rooms) and shooting ranges etc, they tend to have this atmosphere loaded with dude sweat and testosterone.

    In a way, many stables are the female equivalent: you can just sense the abundance of estrogen in there and in some ways going to the stables (if you're a dude) almost feels like venturing into a women's locker room (obviously sans the displays of skin): it's a place few men ever experience and if you do, the women react with almost as much surprise and wonder to the presence of a guy (albeit with less hostility, one assumes).
    Sometimes I think I have an owl sitting on my head, have unwittingly sprouted horns, or I've turned into a slice of der Apfelstrudel for all the weird looks I get there. o_O


    Speaking of, uh... sweat? Whatever; it reminded me of another physically demanding hobby that's great for getting your entire body going after 10h at the computer: parkour! I suck at it (horribly), but it's an awesome feeling when you figure out the best way to clear a challenging obstacle and actually manage to do it.
    And it helps you come up with some alternatives to the same old stuff when writing those exciting chase scenes; what if, instead of just running to a wall and climbing over it (or stopping altogether), the hero(ine) did a wall run and gate vaulted into a 2nd floor balcony to escape the bad guys?

    That's actually a secondary benefit of many of these hobbies: learning to fight, shoot, ride, tend to horses, climb chain-link fences from a run, jumping off 2nd floor balconies etc. are things people often write about, so gaining some first-hand experience of at least a part of those activities (e.g. sparring never compares to real fights, IPSC competitions are nothing like real shootouts etc) can give you some ideas when it comes to describing said activities.
     
  2. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    6,764
    Likes Received:
    5,393
    Location:
    Funland
    This would warrant an essay-long answer as it's a "bit" of a hot potato among equestrians. With dressage, there's the issue of hyperflexion (rollkur) when a horse's head/muzzle is forced close to the chest. It’s an unnatural position and horses rarely exhibit it when they’re allowed to move freely. Generally speaking, just using the bridle can – over time – cause back and neck pains to the horse, so the problem is not the person sitting on the back, really, just the way the bridle and reins manipulate the animal’s form and movement.
    Sure, from my point of view, the outside world just seemed to disagree for some completely utterly unfathomable reason…
    I’m not a huge fan either, and I could never really ride like that (show-jumping and hacking were my thing), but somehow I’ve ended up grooming dressage horses o_O

    ETA: One of said horses caused a scene yesterday in a busy crossroads, no less. I'm sure it was fun to watch for those reasonably far away from a skittish 800-pound animal. Some weirdo was rummaging around in the bushes, freaking the horse out (she couldn't see the threat). She went apeshit, milling around, rearing, ready to bolt. I have a wonky right wrist and it didn't take kindly to the sudden yank as she exploded. Usually she's ok around people unless they're madly racing bicyclists, but this bush-weirdo just made her snap :mad:.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2014
  3. MLM

    MLM Banned for trolling

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    172
    Location:
    Kansas City
    I do ass clenches. I don't know if it keeps me healthy but I have buns of steel now...

    not really :p
     
  4. Lae

    Lae Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2013
    Messages:
    507
    Likes Received:
    224
    Location:
    UK
    i think they call it free running over here, it seems fun and challenging, the only problem i have with it is more the youtube culture rather than the activity. I'm not sure the youtube clips convey the planning needed to do some of these stunts, nor the expertise of some of the runners. I've seen a few people with some pretty nasty injuries because they think watching some clips makes them experts. If people learn the right way, i bet its fun as hell.

    I must say i did get a bit of a shock when i saw my first horse up close, the first one i saw when i was a kid was a gigantic police horse. the second (i saw 20yrs later, one of the downsides to living in london all those years) was my mrs family's horses, they were much smaller but still very big powerful animals, i can imagine why having them spooked is so stressful.

    and here i thought i was the only one that practised glute clenches..... :D
     
  5. T.Trian

    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,253
    Likes Received:
    1,470
    Location:
    Mushroom Land
    @Lae, oh yeah, the YT vids are kinda like... watching a band perform a live gig: they show the performance. They don't show the hours of diligent practice over a looong time, all the frustration, the failures etc. that go into learning all that stuff.

    I'm still in the process of learning the basic vaults, but at least I have the sense not to jump off our 2nd floor porch. My plan is actually not to become an expert at parkour / free running (I think they're slightly different things, i.e. the emphasis is on somewhat different things although, in some context, they can be synonymous), but rather to learn two things:
    1. better control of my body,
    2. the practical stuff I might need if I'm running away from / trying to catch someone (this is where all the vaults, high jumps, wall runs etc. come into play), trying to break into my own home after locking myself out (has happened more than once), trying to escape if, say, a fire cuts off my exits (I can imagine doing the turn vault off our porch if the stairs are on fire for whatever reason, like the Aztec god of fire paying a visit or some such) etc. etc. Might even be useful if I'm running late for class. :D


    ETA: Oh yeah, and big horses are awesome. We went riding with Kat last autumn and I got to ride this huge mare, I mean charger -size. The weird thing was, when this older, cranky stable worker tended to her, she was kinda twitchy and tried to bite, didn't lift the hooves (when they were cleaned) etc, but when I started working on her, she turned out to have a very sweet personality (even though, if memory serves me right, the horse came from Latvia, I think, and was mistreated there).
    Don't get me wrong; I'm no horsewhisperer or anything and this mare was a bit wary at first, but after I spent almost half an hour brushing dirt off her coat, we kinda hit it off and after that it was just great. I just felt like such a tool when the horse obeyed my commands perfectly; it was just that due to my own inexperience / ineptitude that all wasn't smooth going 'cause I gave lots of incorrect / confusing commands when we got to the riding part.

    When we're rich and famours authors, my plan is to buy a mean spirited Shetland pony and a young Shire horse, pair them up, and hope the pony's mean spiritedness rubs off on the Shire; then I'd have a big, badass, mean horse who'll bite and kick everyone but me and Kat. :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2014
  6. marshipan

    marshipan Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,665
    Likes Received:
    4,301
    Location:
    Wonderland
    I start getting brain fog when I stay in the same place for too long, but I have a disposition to stay inside/hidden. If I don't keep up the habit of getting up and out then I just stop (natural recluse). So, every morning I go out, doesn't matter where. Since the weather has just gotten nice (and I have tons of time being unemployed), I've been bicycling up to the shopping center a few miles down the road. Get something from the grocery or just check things out. Then, I need physical activity. Got a friend I play tennis with a few times a week. Just starting to do that again. I was going to the gym a few times a week but that's no longer an option, so I'm running outside. Which I think is better for me mentally, because being outside clears my mind, makes it feel lighter. Though I still need to gather some things to replace the light weight training I used to do (or find a replacement activity). Got to keep things tight. :rolleyes:

    Hmm, also I sleep around. :) Hehe, I mean there is another property I stay at probably twice a week. Switching things up has always been a good thing (if not a necessity) for me. Plus, the other place has a good desk and chair (and I'm usually there alone so I can gallop&dance around like I've had a mountain of sugar and am verging psychosis without concern of frightening witnesses). Used to play dance dance revolution, but I'm letting someone borrow my xbox.
     
  7. theamorset

    theamorset Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2016
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    73
    Location:
    midwest

    Traditional methods of dressage are designed to not cause the horse physical troubles. It's rushing things that causes problems.

    The 'documentary' you watched was made by a vet who was kicked out of the 'Xenophon Club' (a group of international dressage competitors who have banded together to swear off fast methods and shortcuts), for using ugly and forceful methods on horses he trained. Ironic, yes? The most disturbing part of it is that his 'fans' are completely unperturbed by seeing their idol do exactly what he claimed caused horses untold damage! The Russian you mentioned...I can't even discuss him without spittin' on the floor in anger. Trust me, things are not as they seem.

    I happened to have my advanced dressage horse extensively x-rayed because he had ankle pain caused by a fall incurred when he escaped and went joyriding around the neighborhood and slipped on some pavement while galloping. The injury couldn't be detected for a few weeks, so every part of him was xrayed and ultrasounded.

    The vet was just beside himself. Despite doing dressage intensively 'every day for 12 years', every joint (except the injured one) was perfect. They looked like the pristine joints of a young untrained horse. Neck, back, hip, 'knees'(stifles), hocks, everything.

    Why? Traditional methods that are designed to do just that. Consistent conditioning. Gradual progression over months and years.

    Even some of the 'rollkurists' who use extreme positions have had their horses extensively xrayed. No bone pathology. After many years I think I know why(it affects muscle, not bones and the effect wears off rapidly). But strangely enough, I've ridden 'rollkur' trained horses. None of them were miserable or anxious. They were all quite happy and comfortable. I still stick to the old methods. I don't view a method with 'thirty years of experience' behind it as equal to methods with 300 years behind them.

    When Americans learned of the traditional methods use in dressage in Europe for hundreds of years, they had fits. You don't start training the horse to ride til he's THREE AND A HALF? And even then you ride them only 3 times a week for ten minutes???? You spend TEN YEARS TRAINING THE HORSE GRADUALLY? You don't show them til they're EIGHT OR TEN? WHAAAAT????

    Still, even in busy instant America, there are people who follow the old traditions of dressage. I have a little black foal in my barn. He'll be gradually trained starting at three and a half. Until then, he's busy tearing around, up hill and down dale, strengthening his little body and enjoying the good life. An old traditionalist taught me how to make the training of a horse like play. That's what I'll do when the time comes. I'll be sixty four.

    As for the sedentary habit of writing, shoveling horse poop, toting water buckets and looking up hill and down dale for the horses, is a good antidote. Add a collie, four demented cats, a lot of chickens and the local coyote pack and a very fat fox with a taste for chicken, there is no such thing as sedentary here. There's a local group of fox hunters who profess to keep the fox population in check. If you've ever seen a fox sitting on a 'deer stand' (a platform way up in a tree for deer hunters), watching the foxhounds tear past below, you know why we have many foxes here.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2016
  8. theamorset

    theamorset Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2016
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    73
    Location:
    midwest
    It's incredible fun, but it's not for people who like instant gratification. It takes a long time for the human to learn, and a long time to train a horse to do it. Say, six, eight, ten years of daily riding. The rides are brief, but frequent, and carefully planned out.

    Most Americans, if they do dressage, never get past the first or second level(called 'Intro' and 'Training'). There are ten levels, and levels within those levels. Olympic dressage riders have typically been 'learning' dressage for thirty or more years before they 'make it to the top'.

    Most riding sports talk about 90 days of training to teach the horse everything it will ever know, and 'world championships' that have competitors from Texas AND Tennessee...not so with dressage.
     
  9. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    6,764
    Likes Received:
    5,393
    Location:
    Funland
    Wow, you quoted a two-year-old post. :D I've come a long way since then. Been back in the saddle for over a year now. Still not seeing rollkur as a necessary training method, though, but whatever, not the thread for that discussion.
     
  10. theamorset

    theamorset Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2016
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    73
    Location:
    midwest
    I don't see rollkur as 'necessary' either, neither do most dressage riders, neither do most of the successful top dressage riders in the world. There is a little group of Brits making fools out of people who insist it's 'necessary'.
     
  11. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    10,462
    Likes Received:
    11,689
    I'm not a dressage expert, but based on FEI rankings, there are currently 7 Americans in the top 50 and only 4 from Great Britain. (https://data.fei.org/Ranking/Search.aspx?rankingCode=D_WR)

    Are those standings not the ones you'd consider significant? If they are, I think maybe you're underestimating the quality of American riders...
     
    KaTrian likes this.
  12. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    17,922
    Likes Received:
    27,173
    Location:
    Where cushions are comfy, and straps hold firm.
    I draw, drum, listen to music, read, walk, and on and on. My mind runs through all sorts of ideas on where to drag my stories next, as I don't outline like some do. There is a massive file in my brain of next steps, endings, and new stories among others. Being more of a spontaneous writer has it's downside, since nothing about it is pre-planned ahead of time.
    Also watching old shows kinda eats into the time that would be better delegated writing. :D
     
  13. theamorset

    theamorset Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2016
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    73
    Location:
    midwest
    LOL

    Sir there are three kinds of lies. Lies, lies, and damned statistics.

    Think about your logic there. It makes no sense.


    For one thing, there are 53 million people in England. There are 318 million America. England has 16% the population of England. The populations of the two countries are vastly different. Slightly different sizes of pools to draw from!

    I'm not 'underestimating the quality of American dressage riders'. I said MOST of them ride at Intro and Training level. That is correct. 85% of the competition rides in the USA are at intro/training level. That is no opinion. That is a fact. But virtually NONE of those people are 'international competitors'.

    The simple thing is that very few people in EITHER country ride dressage at the top levels. VERY FEW people in ANY country ride dressage at the top levels.

    The fact that there are four up-ranked riders in England and 7 in America says NOTHING about what the OVERALL level of dressage is in EITHER country.

    BOTH England and America have struggled for a very long time to get a toe in the door on the international stage in dressage. They both had neither the grass roots (average guys) program nor the top level competitors 40 years ago. I remember. I'm old. There were people TRYING to do that in both countries, for sure. But it was very, very hard.

    Jane Kidd wrote a book in the late 70s decrying the fact that Britain was so 'behind' in dressage. She set out on a pilgrimage to visit all the top trainers in Europe and formulate how the best do things. When asked why the Brits so sucked in dressage, a German trainer said, "No half halts" (a signal used to balance and ready the horse, using the rider's reins, legs and seat, used frequently in traditional methods). In other words the Brits riders trying to compete on the international stage, did not even know the basic concepts. Typical German dressage person hyperbole. I would say more that they knew the concepts, but the Germans executed the concepts more skillfully. At that point, the same could be said of most Americans who tried to compete internationally.

    For the last 40 years, both England and America have struggled to do two things: 1.) develop the grass roots (ordinary type people) dressage 2.) develop top riders for international competition. These are two very, very different efforts. The grass roots guy has completely different needs from the international guy.

    Mostly through immigrants, through paying German trainers to come to their countries to teach, through wealthy people who have set up educational programs, and through wealthy people who have purchased already trained, top class international horses for our riders, both England and the US have 1.) developed their grass roots programs 2.) developed top riders for international competition.

    There are still, of course, a lot of challenges in both England and America. We both still struggle to beat German and Holland in the top international competitions. But we have come a long way. There are good people like Mr. Bechtolscheimer in England. In the grass roots programs, education is always a limiting factor.

    In Germany and Holland, instructors are trained, licensed, apprenticed, take written exams, and have a rigorous program they must follow. In the US and England....our programs just are not to that level of depth in dressage yet.

    The top countries in international competition are Germany, Holland.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice