@Ashley Harrison you might find this post interesting - I posted a transcription of notes I took from a well-known editor/agent with a background among the Big publishing houses: https://www.writingforums.org/threads/talk-by-heather-lazare.142245/#post-1383553 I heard an editor from a well-known publishing company once say that if she was confronted with a book that she thought was wonderfully written, and that she loved, but she wasn't sure how it was going to fit into their catalog and how they could sell it, she'd pass it over in favor of a less-well book that fit their catalog and she knew she could sell.
Thank you for reposting that thread. It is interesting, an editor with scruples. I guess there's hope for us all.
I honestly haven't experienced anything like that. Do you have evidence of it, or just a strong conviction?
The latter is more likely than the former, though I'm sure it's still pretty rare. Also, degrees don't really matter to the editor unless it's something like an MFA from a prestigious program. Even then, it may not help that much, and it certainly won't guarantee publication.
Yes I can. Enid Blyton, Maya Angelou, Stephen King, Roald Dahl, Ernest Hemingway, Charles Dickins, John Steinbeck, F. Scott Fitzgerald and Norman Mailer, are just a few writers who have at least one child becoming a writer in the family. Some have had two children, like Stephen King, or more that coincidentally have become writers themselves. I'm not saying they were handed book deals, on account of their famous and successful parent. I bet though, it didn't hurt or hinder their changes either.
I can only speak to the case of King, and only to one of his children - Joe Hill. I have no doubt that Stephen King's connections in the world of publishing were valuable - those kinds of interpersonal relationships can be huge. That said, Joe Hill is also a fine writer and I think his success has demonstrated that (given that when he started out it wasn't commonly known who his father was and he still did well in the genre).
So if a plumber's kid becomes a plumber, that's a sign of elitism? I don't know. This started with Oxford and Cambridge, and now it's family ties. To me, family ties seems just like--professions tend to run in families. A LOT of teachers have at least one kid who's a teacher. etc. It might be a help to know someone in the industry, but most successful writers I've encountered have not pulled the ladder up but instead are really helpful to newer writers, offering advice and tips and contacts and whatnot. I really haven't felt like anyone in the industry doesn't want me to succeed. They want me to earn it, sure, but... I want that too. ETA: And even if there are some kids of writers who have an edge, the vast majority of new authors are new to the field. The kids-of-writers are probably the exception rather than the rule.
Definitely, credit where credit is due. I don't hold, having an influence in your favour, against any writer. If the roles were reversed, I'd seriously give it consideration. Sometimes getting an unfair advantage is the fairest way to counter the inequality. If that makes any sense? To not acknowledge this practice occurs on a regular basis, is naive. Literary agents and publishers can be a lot more willing to flout their own rules, if an aspiring author doesn't quite meet the criteria, if their parent is well renowned. The parent acts almost like a reference, to vouch for their child's credibility in the industry. Who am I kidding? If I had a child, I'd use my contacts in the business if I could. I'm sure majority of people would.
Definitely, credit where credit is due. I don't hold, having an influence in your favour, against any writer. If the roles were reversed, I'd seriously give it consideration. Sometimes getting an unfair advantage is the fairest way to counter the inequality. If that makes any sense? To not acknowledge this practice occurs on a regular basis, is naive. Literary agents and publishers can be a lot more willing to flout their own rules, if an aspiring author doesn't quite meet the criteria, if their parent is well renowned. The parent acts almost like a reference, to vouch for their child's credibility in the industry. Who am I kidding? If I had a child, I'd use my contacts in the business if I could. I'm sure majority of people would.
But you understand that if this happened, it was a rare situation, right? I mean, don't use "I don't have a famous parent" as a reason to be discouraged about selling your writing. The vast majority of new authors who sell books don't have famous parents.
If said 'plumber' actively avoids helping plumbers, that aren't family or friend. Or doesn't make it a level playing field for all but favours their own child. That would be the definition of 'elitism'. The amalgamation of Russell Group universities and family ties, is at the heart of cronyism. Why do you think it would be any different in the writing world, than the political world, for example? People, tend to mix with other people, from the same socioeconomic background. If most people in high places come from an elitist perspective, then there's a greater chance, they'll only hire people from their own peer group.
I haven't tried to be published yet.. I'm not sure where I would start or how to start? Are there places that take short stories? Are you supposed to get an Agent first? I don't even have anything worth being published yet, I don't think. But is that me being too hard on myself or is that just the facts? Who knows.
I'm afraid I'm in the same boat as you are, so I wouldn't be of much help to you. I hope someone else sees your post and can point you in the right direction. Good luck with your writing and remember if you think your writing is worth it, then it is worth it.
How are any writers doing this? How are any writers powerful enough to do this? I think you're extending the analogy in the wrong direction. Maybe you want to say - if the plumber's clients refuse to hire any other plumbers and will only deal with the original plumber or his children, then it's elitism. But, of course, that doesn't happen - maybe the plumber's kid gets a shot at doing some plumbing, but if the work leaks (ie. the writing isn't sellable) the kid's out of luck. Again, though, there are loads of new writers getting a chance at publishing, the vast majority of whom have no family connections. I'd say nepotism is probably more significant in the world of plumbing than it is in writing, but I don't have proof of that. (Not going to rip the roof off the big plumbing scandal here) I've never heard of Russell Group universities, but I'm not sure I follow your logic. There's nepotism in one field, therefore there is nepotism in all fields? And, everywhere? Looking at publishing - what do you know about the "elitist perspective" "peer group" or "socioeconomic background" of most people in publishing? I think there are literary journals and literary publishers where a significant number of employees may be from the same group or background, but you're writing horror, right? So that shouldn't apply. And I think there's definitely an issue with racial diversity of editors and writers. But class-based issues? Maybe this is a UK thing. I know the US market better, and in it, I can't imagine how a publisher or agent would know the class of the writer subbing to them. Now, some people swear by trying to meet their agents in person, but the vast majority of agented writers I know got their agents through a simple query letter. I've had my agent for two or three years now and I've never met her in person. We've spoken on the phone a few times, but otherwise, it's e-mails. I've never even had a phone call with any of my editors or publishers, as I can recall. They know nothing about me except for my banking information and whatever nonsense I put into my author bio blurbs. So, be bitter if you want to, but don't let it prevent you from really looking at your writing and figuring out why it's not appealing to agents or editors. I really don't think it's because of your socioeconomic background.
Plenty of places that take short stories. None of the agents I've seen are interested in short stories but they probably exist, somewhere. I usually hate saying this but you really need to do some Googling - it'd take an EPIC forum post to answer your question fully. For me, he's a better writing than his father. /offtopic
Do you do literary or genre fiction? I mostly do genre but I can point you towards a few literary mags I've submitted to as well, to get you started, and offer some pointers with formatting and covers letter etc, if you want. It's a pretty daunting process at first and I'd be happy to help out. Anyway, as far as OP goes, I've been shopping short stories around for a bit over two years now (which is super weird to think about; it's been that long?) and I do still get discouraged sometimes, but the best thing to do is just keep at it. As long as I know I'm trying my best, the rejections don't get me down too much. At this point it's not uncommon to hear me muttering "ugh, just reject me already, christ" when I get impatient about a long turnaround It's important to keep a realistic attitude about it.
The Russell Group is similar to America's Ivy League. If you're that incredulous, wait till you see this. I know I'm veering from the subject in regards to writing but I thought as we've been talking about plumbers, what the heck. 19 UK Prime Ministers have been to Eton which is a public school. (public school means fee-paying) Pure coincidence? Many of the other 53 Prime Ministers have been to other prestigious public schools, then advanced to a Russell Group university. Another coincidence? There's at least 14 millionaires in the UK government. Is that an anomaly or designed to be that way for a reason? I'm going to try and write and sell, in spite of the dice not being loaded in my favour. It's not bitter, it's having my eyes open to the reality of the situation. Here's a question I'd like you to consider, every literary agent (over 25 in the last 2 weeks) have asked for a C.V. to accompany every submission. Why do you think they're asking me to provide a C.V.? To see my educational background of course. If as you say, they're merely wanting to see my work on my own merits. That's not true, if I have to submit a C.V. is it? Talent and sheer luck is not usually enough to get you by in this life. I don't have my head buried in the sand, pretending this problem is nonexistent. That's why the quote "It's not what you know, but it's who you know that matters" is more relevant and true today, than it ever has been.
Ashley, unless you're writing non-fiction they aren't asking to see the CV you'd send for a job advert. They mean a paragraph about your publication history or, if you don't have one, a few sentences about why you're writing the book. I don't have any publications so mine is something like "I'm a professional bid writer for a consultancy firm in London and this is my first novel." That's it. They really don't want to know your education or job history unless it's relevant to the book - like if you'd written a medical crime book and you're a qualified doctor.
No, they make it clear they're asking for two specific documents. A cover letter and a C.V. I thought I could wriggle out of it that way too, but alas not.
Are going to set them straight for me? Raimondi & Campbell Literary Agency, The Inspira Group and Cecily Ware Literary are just a few that require a C.V. as well as a separate cover letter.
Oh, film and television scripts. That makes more sense! I thought it was weird that I hadn't come across a single agent asking for a CV. But I've only been looking at ones who handle novels.
Raimondi & Campbell Literary Agency and The Inspira Group accept book submissions only from authors with a C.V. Cecily Ware are exclusively a Film and TV agency.
Look again at Inspira: "a short bio/CV". They're talking about the kind of bio I talked about earlier, not your work CV. Raimondi don't specify, but since there's no reason for them to need a work CV I'm assuming the same. It's only the film and TV one that seems to mean an actual job CV.
