How do you like a Story to start?

Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by John Anaszewicz, Sep 21, 2018.

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  1. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I guess the most stark example of traditional storytelling is the fairy/folktale.

    Once upon a time, there was a little girl who lived in a tiny village. Her mother doted on her. Her grandmother was even fonder, and made her a little red hood. The little girl loved that hood and wore it everywhere. People called her Little Red Riding Hood. (French fairy tale.)

    ..............

    This quiet, scene-setting beginning is universal, and it's the way many stories get told. We get immediately oriented to the setting of the story, introduced to the characters, and often get a notion of what the story is going to be about. Some of these stories contain bloody battles (of epic nature, such as LOTR) but they start 'small' and quiet. But they are not boring starts. They are intriguing starts, and it's difficult to walk away from them without wanting to know more.

    These are the kinds of starts I prefer.

    The Odyssey is, in essence, Book Two ...following The Illiad. Even so, it starts with a recap of what has previously happened to Odysseus and tells us what kind of a man he is. It does not throw Odysseus smack into the middle of action. I can't speak for Dante, because I haven't read it, but I would suspect it also begins with some sort of grounded setting/characters, etc. However, if I'm not mistaken, both of these are poetry, not prose stories. (Not that it makes a lot of difference, but just saying.)

    Shakespeare is a playwright, so his work are plays, which have a different dynamic and are naturally more action-oriented. However, I can't think of any of his plays (and I've studied several of them at University) that didn't start with some sort of setting/character introduction.

    Hamlet begins with the Prince of Denmark being called by frightened palace guards to meet his ghostly father on the battlements of his castle, Elsinore—and the ghost warns Hamlet of treachery.

    Romeo and Juliet begins with typical teenager Romeo about to attend a party where, unbeknownst to him, he will catch his first sight of Juliet.

    These stories don't start in the middle of a battle, etc. They immediately orient us to who, where, what, and we soon discover why. They provide a foundation that launches us into the story. If that is media res, then I'm all in favour of it. However, I think many people now believe media res requires an action scene, often with unnamed characters engaged in a generic 'battle' or being chased, etc, in order to generate 'excitement.' We don't find out the significance of this battle or chase till much later on, and this, in my opinion, is storytelling done backwards.

    Not always, of course, but this kind of 'action' opener can smack of lack of confidence in the worth of the story. The writer thinks, perhaps, he/she requires a gimmick to get people interested—that the situation, characters and setting aren't interesting enough. So throw in some 'blood and guts' or a big fight and then readers will start to care? Unfortunately, this can actually have the opposite effect, unless it's done with a fair amount of expertise.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
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  2. MikeyC

    MikeyC Active Member

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    I guess it depends on your ultimate goal - which for most writers is to make an income.

    (Sorry if this has been covered, don't have time to read through the replies)

    Grab their attention with an explosive opening, that happens later in the book. For example - Twilight Series - she did this very well.


    Rgds
     
  3. l nimbus

    l nimbus Member

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    A bit In-Your-Face and not scared to get right to the heavy stuff.
     
  4. ReturntoEarth

    ReturntoEarth New Member

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    Actually the Iliad and the Odyssey are considered by scholars to be one of the first instances (That we've found) of in media res in literature. You can google "Examples of in media res" and The Iliad and the Odyssey will be the first two major works to pop up.

    Hamlet is also a major in media res story, it skips over any more introduction to Hamlet than that he is the Prince of Denmark. It doesn't show us his father dying and gives us very little detail on what his life was like before the beginning of the play. It focuses primarily on the revenge aspect of the story.

    I also think you might have some misunderstandings about in media res because it doesn't mean devoid of all detail or avoiding the background of the character, it merely means that there is not as much about the character up front and the focus is on what is happening at that moment rather than a lengthy background of how the character came to be. Often more and more detail is revealed later on in the story to reveal more and more about the character, it is as if meeting a new person for the first time. You know nothing about that person other than what you see before you but as you get to know them you learn more and more about them and their past.
     
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  5. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Yes, I can go with that definition ...that it means it's focusing on what is happening at the moment. That's fine, as long as it introduces the characters and allows us to immediately begin to follow the story. I don't have a problem with that. Hamlet is the Prince of Denmark, and the ghost of his father is walking the battlements. That's all we need to know to get started.

    However, if the story had begun with Hamlet (who isn't named) having a swordfight with somebody ...slash hack, etc ...and it goes on for several pages, and he walks away the victor? Then in the next sequence, it's revealed that he's the Prince of Denmark and his father's ghost is walking the battlements...?

    That's the kind of 'in media res' that worries me. And there are lots of people who think that's the way to open a story because it's exciting ....swordfights are always exciting, right? Even when we don't know who the combatants are.

    I tend to prefer the slow start story, and that's my preference. But in media res, when applied as you've mentioned as regards Hamlet, is fine as well. It's actually the start of the story. There isn't any 'recap' period. We learn all we need to know from the ghost and its conversation with Hamlet. It works well. But a swordfight to start? That wouldn't work so well, in my opinion.

    As for the Odyssey ...well the jury's out, in my opinion. This is the beginning, and it doesn't sound to me as if it's beginning in the present moment at all, but the author is doing a recap :
    ody.png
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
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  6. badgerjelly

    badgerjelly Contributor Contributor

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    Badly. Then I attempt to pick up the pace and hope to reach a point where I’m not writing something I find overtly repulsive.
     
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  7. J.D. Ray

    J.D. Ray Member Supporter Contributor

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    I'm not sure I can answer "how" because I'm fairly certain I don't know the answer. However, my WIP is set 250 years in the future of now, which is when I presume my readers, if I have any, will be reading the material. So it seemed to me that some sort of stepping stone was needed to help establish how the world got to be the way it is. I wrote a two-page prologue set about midway between here and there, describing the signing of a peace treaty for what would become known as The Last War. Conveniently, the POV character is married to an ancestor of one of the larger story's MCs, providing a bit of a tie that I'm not sure is necessary, but seems (now) to give a little something to the situation.

    In general, I like prologues in stories. They set the stage and provide me, as the reader, with some context through which to view the first bits of the story. Contrast this with one of Neal Stephenson's novels like Anathem, where the reader is thrown into an alien world with alien characters and alien language words that the reader has to work out the meaning of over time. I've talked to several people who put that novel down after a few pages, not having caught onto what the story was about before they got confused and bored with trying to understand.
     
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  8. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Yes. I'd pay particular attention to that last sentence. I prefer to start from a solid place, when reading, by finding out who what where when, and some hint about why as well.

    I maintain that if a reader has to skip ahead in order to figure out what is going on, then the writer could have worked it better.

    However, that doesn't necessarily mean I need a history lesson either. History isn't going to be very interesting unless it is interesting, if that makes sense. If you must start with a history lesson, give it a twist that nobody expects. Try to open with what is unusual about that backstory, rather than just this happened, then that...

    However, getting the reader oriented doesn't necessarily require backstory. Just make sure we know the names of the characters in the first scene—especially the protagonist—give us where and a general idea of when it's taking place, what the characters are doing, and some hint about why they are doing it.

    By why, I don't mean a history lesson. I mean something like ...the POV character Harold is running because the king's men-at-arms are chasing him, or Harold is running because he needs to get to the party before his girlfriend Mandy does, or Harold is running because he's training for a marathon. If you can show us how Harold feels during this scene—scared, anxious, determined?—then all the better. Nothing gets us 'into' a scene like identifying with the POV character's thoughts and feelings.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
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  9. John Anaszewicz

    John Anaszewicz Member

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    That might be how I start it.
    Small vague prologue about the matter at hand, then lead in to the main character's POV.

    The hard part now is mapping out the world and how the story will progress from area to area and person to person and each dilemma within.
     
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  10. DueNorth

    DueNorth Senior Member

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    I did get 3 agents to read 50-75 pages of my novel (a success of sorts as most others either didn’t respond to my queries or rejected it after glancing at the 10 pages that accompanied the query). 2 of the 3 of them told me that it started too slow, one saying it was “too literary.” It has plenty of action in it, but not until about 40 pages in. When I rewrite it, much of the first chapters will be axed or blended into later chapters. I will start with action.

    I’m currently working on a new novel, and there is action and tension right out of the gate. Let me recommend 2 books that have influenced my current thinking: Hooked by Les Edgerton and Thrill Me by Benjamin Percy. Also, read David Joy. He has 3 novels out now. All powerful, and all hard-hitting from word one. Just my POV.
     
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  11. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Maybe re-think the 'vague prologue' idea, though. Go ahead and write one, if it helps YOU get started. But don't set it in stone.

    I'm a big fan of prologues, but they don't grab readers unless they are good mini-stories. I suspect that many of the prologue-haters on this forum have encountered too many of the 'vague' ones that seem extraneous to the story, are philosophical treatises, or are merely info-dumps about 'the world.' These folk now refuse to read prologues, and they have a valid point—although it's a mistake to say 'never write a prologue.' However, I'd amend that to 'never write a vague one, if you can help it.' Do you really want your readers' first experience with your story to be an unfocused ramble?

    In my opinion, a good prologue contains specific information that a reader MUST know before the story starts—in the form of a scene or scenes that are as gripping as any other part of the story. This can be something that happens to your main characters many years before the 'real' story starts but has great impact on what comes later. Or it can feature a character whom we probably won't meet again, but whose activities or experiences matter to the story as a whole. It can also be an event that the reader needs to know about, in order to follow the story's trajectory. It launches the story and is necessary to the story. It's never an 'extra.'
     
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  12. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I'm not clear on why this would be included? I agree with @jannert on the vague prologue question.
     
  13. DueNorth

    DueNorth Senior Member

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    Count me as one of the “prologue-haters.” I’m not as well-read as many on this forum, but I can’t recall reading a novel that contained a prologue that I found essential. Often information provided in a prologue can be revealed along the way through dialogue or other revelations (a character finds a scrapbook or news article, etc.) that are more interesting. Whenever I do see a prologue, I always read on with skepticism about whether the prologue needed to be there. It’d be an interesting survey—how many readers like or dislike them (or don’t care—maybe the majority. Why risk turning off a segment of readers unless it’s absolutely needed, and, if you’re going to do it, like @jannert infers, make it gripping.
     
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  14. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I would say don't avoid writing a prologue if it's necessary to your story—but make sure it is. A prologue should not be idle 'throat-clearing.' Fine to write it, if you want to start out writing that way, but don't feel you have to keep it in your finished version.

    As far as 'revealing' the information in the prologue through dialogue, etc, there are also times when that simply isn't possible. For example, a character may be concealing information that you want the reader to know. (The reader watches a teenaged character murder his girlfriend in the prologue, but in the main story he's an upstanding, adult member of the community—now married with children—who runs the local grocery store.) Or an event has taken place that the characters don't know about yet, but which will eventually impact on their lives, big-time. You should never avoid a prologue, if that's the case.

    In fact, rather than being 'boring,' this kind of revelation can really ramp up tension in a story. Because the reader knows these events have occurred—even if the characters don't—then the reader will be waiting for the chickens to come home to roost.

    Again, keep in mind the idea that a prologue should contain information that a reader must know about BEFORE THE STORY STARTS. It is not a skippable thing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
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  15. DueNorth

    DueNorth Senior Member

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    Interesting example, @jannert, because this would be exactly the kind of story where I would “hate” the prologue. For the reader to know that Upstanding Citizen had murdered his girlfriend in adolescence beforehand without having UC show that he is conflicted about this in his adult life or having cracks in his secret come to light would not be the way I’d want to tell (or read) such a story. I think it’d be far more interesting for it to emerge why he’s conflicted or being “triggered” in his current day life without the reader having advance knowledge. It’d be like peeking in the wrapped gifts under the Christmas tree. You can, of course, without a prologue, have a novel advance in time—there are multiple ways to do this without use of a prologue. Why give the reader “inside information” from the get-go. The novel I am currently reading (Where The Crawdads Sing) switches back and forth from advancing years in the 1950’s to 1969. The novel I am currently working on starts with a tragedy in the lives of two boys and advances to their adult lives. I’m just saying that you can do it without a prologue.

    Where we clearly agree: If you are going to use a prologue, make it essential and compelling. And, in a first draft, what the hell, write it how you want and see how it plays out. I’m a believer that first crafts are the writer telling the story to him/herself anyway. A lot of the “real”writing is in revision :).
     
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  16. Bone2pick

    Bone2pick Conspicuously Conventional Contributor

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    I'd be satisfied telling or reading such a story.
     
  17. 18-Till-I-Die

    18-Till-I-Die Banned

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    I try to start stories by just directly introducing a character and the setting, specifically characters. In fact I said, grab a group you'd consider the "main characters" and introduce them, their world, their lives, as much as you can so you get their personality and how they fit in the setting. Then go into the setting itself, explore what that is and how they fit in, so people get it. But I tend to do it kinda quick--the way I describe it is "the first fifteen". In a movie, they have to hook you quick or you won't give a damn, and I tend to say the first fifteen minutes gets you hooked or it never will. Same here kinda, I try to do or say something to make people see these characters as fast and succinct as I can, throw the setting's basic idea in there, and then expand like crazy.

    Side note, it also helps to have extra lore behind the setting. Like mention some things in the background like...this is just my BS but like, have a character say "you're a veteran of the Oligarch War" or something and the main guy says "Yeah, that was a crazy time. God I miss the 2100's." and then as you go on drop it or mention it again or have some other bits and pieces--but in the background, in the lore, you have the Oligarch War and what that ACTUALLY means in context in your mind so if it turns out to be a breakout character or a concept that takes off you can expand on it.

    But the initial start I would say, throw the main group of characters out there as succinctly as possible while still having their actual purpose and feelings made clear, and the setting, and then just take off and expand from there.
     
  18. 18-Till-I-Die

    18-Till-I-Die Banned

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    Ninja edit: an example honestly I would take from some romance movies, no seriously. Like, we're immediately, almost scene-one introduced to the main character or characters and their life in the most simple and succinct but complete way possible and the setting is made clear (like we meet the young ingenue working on the farm and the boy she's in love with from the rival family and how their small town works) and then we expand on the characters, setting, etc like crazy as we go. But RIGHT THERE at the very beginning we know who this is, what they're after, where they are, etc in the simplest but least vague way we can.
     
  19. LazyBear

    LazyBear Banned

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    The scenic view (both landscapes and indoors) with a poetic introduction is a good way to start any chapter before the natural prose narration begins. Then introduce the characters with what they are doing and why they are there, otherwise you'll confuse the reader by jumping directly into something.

    For me, the first chapter is the easiest part, because you are free to change anything. Forget all your previous ideas and sketches and let the new characters slowly come into shape while writing what feels natural. Clear your mind and remember a strong moment from your past. It might be a vacation trip to a tropical island or when you first met someone you liked. Then change the setting to something more mystical and exotic that you would want to read about while keeping the same immersive feeling that people can relate to. Take away all references to the stressful modern world that the reader wants to get away from by reading your book.
     
  20. fjm3eyes

    fjm3eyes Member

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    I write short stories, but this goes for novels as well. I presume. Do you you introduce your character (s) in the first paragraph? With other character insights (his/her emotions, flaws, his/her viewpoints into things) to follow soon thereafter.
     
  21. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    But it would depend on what the story was about, wouldn't it? If the story was about somebody trusting the guy (and the reader trusting him as well) then your scenario would be the one to take. However, if the story is about a character trusting the guy and we KNOW better, then that's a different case.

    Think Columbo. That's a crude case, but that series always contained a prologue. We, the audience found out immediately whodunnit and how it was done. Figuring out who the murdererer was isn't what the story was about. The story was about wondering how Columbo would eventually get to the truth. It wasn't about us trying to figure out the truth ourselves.

    Both methods get used all the time.

    In my own novel, I tried it your way first. No prologue. No revelations. However, my betas all got fed up trying to figure out why my character was 'conflicted.' This distracted a lot from the main point of the story, because the readers assumed that finding out the cause of his odd, conflicted behaviour was the point.

    However, once I wrote the prologue, all that changed. His behaviour now makes sense to the reader right away, although the other story characters still don't know what happened. Finding out what happened earlier isn't what is driving the story for the reader. (Oh, now I understand what happened ...The End.) What drives the story are the consequences of the earlier event that we know are still to come. We know things can't continue the way they are, and we know (because we, the readers, know how this started) that there will be no happy ending for everybody. The question is: who will be left standing, and who will not. How is my character going to cope when the truth comes out?
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
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  22. DueNorth

    DueNorth Senior Member

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    @jannert : Perhaps we are splitting hairs in a sense. Revealing to the reader that your MC has a secret does not, of course, require a prologue. As I mentioned, my current WIP involves 2 boys who are involved in a tragic death that they vow to keep secret. It happens in the first chapter. The remainder of the novel is about the impact of the death and the secret on their lives, their friendship, and the ensuing investigation. The tragedy occurs in the first chapter—no prologue. I’m just saying there are multiple ways to do it. Not saying you’re wrong, just claiming my membership in the “prologue-haters club.” BTW, did you ever get your novel published?
     
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  23. John Anaszewicz

    John Anaszewicz Member

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    Maybe not "vague prologue" but I meant a prologue that explained a situation but didn't give all the information and the reader wouldn't see a mention of it until much later.
    Sorry if that caused confusion.
     
  24. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    There's a very good chance that that's not a good idea.

    Will the prologue be so engaging and interesting that a reader would eagerly read it if it were the opening of the book?
     
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  25. John Anaszewicz

    John Anaszewicz Member

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    I hope so. I'll write out the scene and if I feel like I should use it later on in the book as a sort of flashback, then I'll move it forward and start it out normally.
     

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