How does magic work in your story? Can you also find flaws in mine?

This is part two, I've had tons of feed back already which mostly involves about misunderstandings due to poor explanation

Magic's property is comparable to that of water. The flowing in and out of the physical world is comparable to the sea at the beach. This is very random, where the total is always about the same but sometimes it can be high or low (this is due to the inverted flow of time of the worlds). The second way of entering the physical world is via souls, which is comparable with rivers. A constant flow filling the body slowly, if you've used it all it will take half a day (throughout the night basically). If you don't use magic for a long period of time it will simply disperse off the body and not make the body overcharge. I specifically say en-souled species can have this, but I have not made a defined line between soulless and en-souled beings. Bacteria definitely don't have souls, whereas a wolf would. Anyone some suggestions where I could pull the line? Googling this didn't really help.

The amount of understanding you need to use magic is definable; you'll need to understand the concept of what you're manipulating (the energies), what happens to it, and its result. Humans so far are the only ones that understand magic, but I am planning on making a few more races that are able to use it too.

When humans figured out the property of magic transcending between two planes, they noticed that they could send magic away to what is basically nothing, a void. These Gateways are easily constructed since magic is easily manipulated, you can fill these voids and when needed have it like a bucket of water been thrown over you. This means when you open the void to yourself you'll automatically absorb the entire amount. So be careful to not fill them up to much, hence the reason why you can not link yourself up with The Nether, since you'll attempt to absorb it's entire content.

When manipulating objects it can be very wide. One has asked before if you are able to change chemical compositions, which should be possible. But as stated before, you'll need to understand the whole process. Making Water in to Oxygen means you need to understand that Water consists out of H2O, needs to be understood that hydrogen will be reduced to hydrogen gas. And Water will be oxidised, Oxygen and hydrogen. Besides this you'll need to understand its structure of Water with a bond angle of 104.5 degree and to that of Oxygen and Hydrogen. So basically you'll need to understand a shit ton before you can do anything in changing chemical bonds. Because just breaking ionic or atomic bonds cost a LOT of energy (try to break carbon fibre for example).

Manipulating gasses had me in thought for a while, a gas is not an object. This though, should not matter. You as caster decide the amount of volume you want to manipulate and how, starting from your touch. Tricky part is due to the constant movement of gasses doesn't mean you can manipulate something that 10 meters away, since it won't stay linked up. Even in wind still situation there always remains some kind of air flow, and if you keep it close or fast enough it should be possible to successfully manipulate gasses. This also means whilst you cast the composition of the object can't change, this doesn't mean the object can't move (like living beings for example).

Quantities in magic: I have stated that objects that are more often used with magic are able to contain more magic. Magic flows from first the body to the object, so with any cast the body is used. A completely unused body would be able to make a stone (round stone of 1 kg) roll for a second and then is drained (since excess magic leaves the body when it comes from the soul). The growth is not that quick (differs per person), within a week the person would be able to make this stone roll for a 10 seconds at walking speed. This growth will continue until the maximum amount of magic gained a day from the soul is reached, this is a soft cap and slightly different for everyone. This soft cap would make a rock roll at running speed for 15 minutes. Which is a considerable amount. Everything else needs to be done with Gateways.

This is all the time I have right now, will try to make a part 3 if people are interested.

 

I am still not sure of the defined limits though.
Like, you mentioned you can split water into oxygen, is this simply because water is made up of oxygen? What if I wanted to turn granite into oxygen? Assuming I understood the basic process.

My problem with this update is you more just restated the previous position in more words. Like you mentioned before that you need to understand what you are doing.

As for the line. Me? Since you had commented on the similar aspects of our models. Bacteria in my world does have aura. Because the line is life! Even singled celled organsims have aura.

Also, yeah I kind of think understanding what you are doing is a given, but it does beg how defined that understanding has to be. A person could realize water is made of parts and understand how to seperate them without knowing what those parts are. Right? Or does he litterally have to know the atomic weight?

It reminds me of my girl Elizabeth, a water naturalist. She has a super connection to water specifically. She can manipulate vapor in pure theory but rarely does. As she herself comments on. "It is hard to visualize myself grabbing something that is invisible."

 

Ahhhhh this thread. Jesus I've had so many different versions of "Magic"

One story "magic" though I didn't call it that, was the direct powers of the Gods. Only Adepts (a person who for whatever reason a God, most likely Patron Diety, chose to enable) were able to weild a small portion of that power. Each Adept bore the mark of an Adept, which varied from person to person based on the nature of their gifts, their personality and the one who bestowed it on them. And they would flare up anytime they used their gifts.

Because magic was an energy of Godlike power I often times wrote an Adept's power as being almost sentient and having a will of its own that the Adept had to reconcile and learn to work with.

Also within the realm of the Gods an Adept could use their power freely. But returned to the human world where there was no connection to the source then it would sap at their life force instead. Well that's if the Adept was the vessel. Some Adepts had weapons or relics that channeled the power.

In my most recent story, magic is destruction and tied inherently to the power of the Fallen and Demons. Humans can't use it without making a deal with a Fallen (it's through this that demons are born, the continued use of magic through a human vessel corrodes the human and transforms it into something else like a vampire or some other sort of lesser evil). And half human/Fallen create Cambi who CAN use a small portion of magic which they manifest in the form of Talents. There's an opposite divine energy that's called a Blessing but no one can harness that and it's called Blessing because it's bestowed upon them by Heaven. It's what made the Walkers.

I could go on but well this isn't about my variations of magic.

So your concept. I like the usage of it. The first part about objects and change is pretty much physics, just at a greater scale. It's perfectly believable that they would react the way they do.

My question is why the separate Void gates? I get that magic has an expiration date, but if Voids are timeless I don't understand the need for types of gates ie lesser/greater. Can you elaborate on that?

 

Since it's a written medium and understanding the worth of every magic spell would be too difficult because you can't see which attacks have a bigger blast radius or speed or whatever, I made every "attack" worth pretty much the same thing, and the only thing I describe are rules to each attack - not the look.

I keep the rules consistent, never breaking them so that the reader will just believe me when I say something is a certain way.
It's different for every person because magic can do practically anything depending on what you've trained to use it for. Some people can turn it into a firebolt, while others train until they can mold their magic into the shape of a weapon. Typically, the more powerful a spell is - one that can punch through the defenses of someone who sees it coming - the harder it would be to land, becoming slower and almost impossible to hit your opponent with. In the story I'm writing, instead of sacrificing strength for speed and such - things that would only be easy to tell in a visual medium - I turn people's strategies into the means of getting what you want.

I'll try to be brief here because the real plotting for this is really extensive and based on a lot of previous information:

For example, there's a spy character who has as much "Magic" as his comrades, but is so specialized that he can't defeat even a weak mage on his own.
The spy's friends capture a mage who uses telepathy to relay information to his partners. Even keeping this mage sedated would be too difficult, so the spy utilizes his special power to trap the mage. The spy has the power to initiate games of "truth or dare" between himself and an opponent. The condition is that the mage must agree to the stakes of the game, this time, death. If the mage wins, he gets to request the opposite choice of the spy (meaning that if he answered truthfully, he could dare the spy to help him escape or something). The misdirection, is that the mage thinks he has an option in this case. He obviously can't choose "dare", so the mage comes to the conclusion that spilling one secret is no big deal if it means escaping. Once the question is asked, the mage can only communicate with the spy, and should he say anything other than the right answer, he loses. The spy asks his favorite question, "What is the number one thing you don't want to tell me?" The game starts because the answer is certainly in the mages head, but as the spy has learned, the question entails so many possible and seemingly equal answers (many of which are repressed within a person) that no one has ever answered correctly. By putting himself in danger, the spy increases the power of the spell, and the stake of death keeps the mage from saying anything or communicating with his friends. The spy can no longer leave earshot of the mage, but may lift the spell later at his leisure.

this is the most isolated use of specialized magic in the story that also employs strategy. there are others i'm planning that would take way too long to explain lol and happen in more of a battle setting.

Since everyone visualizes the strength of firebombs and the speed of characters in different ways, I'm going around it by making every battle mostly a conditional dialogue with strict rules instead

 

I'm not sure about the defined limits yet either but it's a start.

The differenc between making water in to oxygen or in to granite is significant but eventually both possible. What I'm trying to say anything should be possible if you understand its proces. You don't need to know what every particle does by it self but just understand what it does as a collective. But that collective goes through a very specific process. And this is why I say changing chemical bonds or even trying to change nuclei only possible if you have a high understanding of physics and chemistry. In general you'll need a high understanding of science if you want to achieve high that is, which would take ages. Changing the weight of an object shouldn't be difficult. You only enhance an already existing force, and that's the ony thing that happens. Deep knowledge is not possible since it's not a difficult concept.

So rather that someone tries to change water to poison, a person can just grab a blade, swing it, make if heavier and have a tremendous impact.

Is it a little bit clear now?

 

So, using energy to apply more force causing the perception of enhanced weight?

Yep, that is something my world can't do. lol. Don't get me wrong. In my world you can smash a knife through stuff with tremendous force too! But in my world the idea is magic holds the bonds together, of you and the knife. Since your bonds are held together you can handle applying more force, since its bonds are held together. It cann survive more force. You have to still apply more force! Which is why bullets became worthless in my world. lol

We;;. neyond alchemmy and weight changing. What else can standard magic do?

 

So if I understand it correctly you would be able to do anything as long as you understand how it works, the magnitude of the effect is reasonable (your spirit, which is your link to the Nether, needs to survive) and you are in contact with the object of your desire. So if I think about something simple such as turning a piece of flat glass into a lens, may I simply alter its refractive index (more in the center than at the edges) or do I need to change the material into something which has the desired properties? Changing the properties of objects while not being allowed to change the objects themselves without having extensive scientific knowledge of how to do this sounds a bit contradictory.
What level of knowledge is necessary for each magical action? For example, if I want to cure a malign tumor, can I simply tell the immune system to track down and kill cancer, do I need to specify where the tumor is, what it's made of, what it's surface properties are (this is what the immune system naturally looks for) or do I need to know the inner workings of the mutation of the tumor? What kind of surrounding system knowledge would I need? If a person is depressed, his immune system is weakened. Would I need to know the neurochemistry of this person's depression in order to circumvent it and fight a virulent infection or do I just tell it to... man up? I'm using medicine as an example because that seems like the most natural application considering the range limitation and its widespread interest/job opportunity.
Suffice to say your wizards would need to be scholars at the very least, and even then they might prefer science over magic if you make the threshold for using magic too high. Do you really want to study every detail of your car and a faster car just so you can upgrade your old rustbin, or would you rather get it tuned at a shop? You have banished the use of all magic for 1000 years, people are not just going to sit around waiting for it to come back. What has replaced magic in your world, and how does your world adapt to its return? I'd personally find this more interesting than the exact limits and uses of your magic.
Maybe this isn't necessarily in your thread but here goes; if you make magic too knowledge-dependent I'd expect knowledge to be a very, VERY hard to come by commodity in society. I'd expect anyone who has a little bit of knowledge (and thereby can wield a little magic) to be a cult leader, splintering society quickly into fractions competing for scraps of information. Well, if the context is a pre-global society. In a globalized information era all hell would simply break loose, a middle school child being able to build an atom bomb (or at least a dirty bomb) with nothing but basic textbooks (or wikipedia) and some patience.
I'm not trying to poke holes or anything, you're the one holding all the strings. Just throwing in what comes to mind, hope these ramblings spark new thoughts.

 

You don't need extensive scientific knowledge if the change of the property of the object is simple, along these changes are enhancements of existing forces. Giving something extra properties or removing them would be significantly harder or impossible. So imo it's not really contradictive.

I don't know if I'm explaining this properly enough since Ive seen similar questions to this multiple times. Anything that's imaginable should be possible. I really don't see anyone knowing where a tumour is, knowing the medics and its properties, knowing how it would react in what order with what type of reaction to which type of products. It's tons and tons of information you'll be adding to significant small amounts of matter. If you only need to move the medicine to a certain area within the body that might be possible to do so, anything more complicated than that seems to me impossible. But then again, I'm not that familiar within the medicine world, so if there're people that are able to construct pathways like this within their own head I'd be happy to hear.

Well, basically its post-apocalypse. The entire human race was completely build around magic. Good compare would be electricity in our world. What would happen if world wide electricity would disappear? Entire fall of our civilisation, many deaths, and world wide disorder. I'd assume this would take a few hundred years before establishing itself to a more stable situation. Now take a look at the Roman Empire, after it fell apart technology went pretty much backwards for a while. And nothing significant happened for nearly 400 years. A thousand years after the rise of the banishment I think humanity was just getting back on its feet. Than adding magic back again would not be as disruptive. Everyone did feel they had a surge of power, but no-one could explain what is was. Slowly people started to figure out that they could use magic and eventually this would bloom in to the civilisation again. This would also stirs up things again.

Since so much information is lost from the previous era, people really don't have that much information about general science. Especially things like tumours, chemical bonds, depressions et. are not understood, where people probably would just say "Hey, man up". People from last era would know considerably more, and a lot more than we do. I've come up with several ideas that is for us right now border lining scifi and science.

 

Like I said, alchemy would be barely possible, besides that be most impractical due to its amount of magic needed on artefacts.

But weaponry, you can change its heat, weight, speed, make it conduct electricity when overcharging surrounding air, but this is easy.

Gollums, large artefacts are needed since they consume a lot of magic to work. Seen what people can achieve with only 1's and 0's irl, this would also be possible with using magic and an experienced caster. He'd be able to "program" the gollum to let it carrier out tasks.

Teleporting, this is already possible in real life, called Quantum Teleportation. I'm not going to explain this and within the story the teacher will attempt this, but stops halfway since no-one follows. But easily explained, it only works on lifeless object, just have two objects entangled in quantum state, then by making one disperse completely into energy send it over to the other which then absorbs this energy and becoming the original object.

Levitating/flying, making air disperse above your shoulders or head. Same ways lift works on airplane wings. Tricky part is that air moves a lot so this needs to be cast often to remain levitated.

Overcharging, when overcharging in significant amount, you can shoot unaimed lightning, make water explode or create very dense objects, like armours, for a short period of time.

Enhancing ones own body in speed and strength.

Vehicles are easily constructed.

Healing, restoring the body from wounds, along the blood vessels are quite intact, not to much tissue missing and not too much blood loss.

I'm thinking of having shapeshifting in here too, technically if you'd completely know all of your own body and to that over the animal of choice, you'd be able to shift. Your body needs to able to take considered amounts of magic, but could be worth it. Let me know what you guys think about this one.

With given examples can you guys also think of other ideas?

 

Reminds me of what a friend called. "Western Model"

The idea being that it is Model vs Spellbook. Spellbook being like Harry Potter, specific spells you learn that do specific things and that is it. While a Model is more guideline rules. Anything that fits into those rules is applicable.

Western because in Western magic, the ocus tends to be extern forces challening through or listening though. Even Superman in a sense follows this logic as he absorbs the power of the sun. While Goku for example, being Eastern Magic creates his own energy.

Since you sai peolple have to like summon magic anc channel it through them.

Since we are working with a model My question is then. What is some examples of things that just can't work. Period, 100% no! Like, doesn't mater how smart, or how much resources they have. They cannot make X object do Y because of magic?

 

I can't really think of many things tbh. You can't make small objects do complicated things, even if they were artifacts. You can't control or manipulate minds. You can't manipulate energy itself. And for the rest if it follows the laws of physic it should be fine. Unless you can think of weird situation which would give problems.