1. ruskaya

    ruskaya Contributor Contributor

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    not a pro, yet very curious

    how much do you need to be good at plotting to consider yourself a writer?

    Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by ruskaya, Dec 19, 2020.

    I am not one of those people who can come up with a story, a well-formed plot, just like that. Sure, if I want I can come up with a story anytime, but it would be rather common and random, with a high chance that it would bore me to death.
    Instead, I rather think in terms of snippets, scenes in which the characters show themselves to me. Then I try to grasp the story they want to tell, or describe what I wonder they would do if such-and-such happened to them. But it takes a lot of thinking effort on my part.

    Because plot matters so much to storytelling, I wonder if my lack of flexibility and naturalness in plotting says I can be a writer, but not a good one . . . :superwhew:

    thoughts?
     
  2. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I don't think you need to do plotting beforehand, but I do believe it's important to understand the principles of it, meaning study it from a few books and maybe even try it yourself a few times. I did that, though I develop my stories on the fly. I sort of work out plotting after the initial writing, without actually making an outline.
     
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  3. marshipan

    marshipan Contributor Contributor

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    I can't imagine many people have the ability to plot without practice and study. Or at least I sure had no clue for a long time. I had to follow preformed genre outlines for a little bit. For example, the outline guideline would tell me what the start/first chapter should achieve and I'd then try and figure out how my characters could achieve that goal (meeting each other for instance) in an entertaining way.
     
  4. Lifeline

    Lifeline South. Supporter Contributor

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    There are many ways to get a story out, one of which is plotting. The whole 'Gardener/Pantser' faction would jump at your throat for saying that you only are a writer when you plot. I would, too :) but I'm restraining myself. I have been known to plot, occassionally, but oftly (read: most often, mostly) I just fly by the seat of my pants.

    But as far as if you are a writer... Do you write? Regularly? Then yes, you are a writer.

    If you are a good one is harder to answer. You'll need readers for that. Go write and publish, and you'll find out :)
     
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  5. Malum

    Malum Offline

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    For me, the thoroughness of my plotting leaves more room for focus on the quality of the writing further down the line. In some ways, it's like writing the entire story paraphrased....although I do end up changing a good portion of the plot, depending on how many years the idea has been floating around.
     
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  6. More

    More Active Member

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    The word plot looks simple enough , until you start analize it . There are books about the plot, with lists of the 4 or 1000 possible variations of plots found in literature . I have also see books that aske the question , is the plot need in a story and list the top plot-less stories . I gave up thinking about plot .
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
  7. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    My approach has been to keep watching videos, reading blogs and websites and books, learning about various methods (concerning plotting as well as character, etc). I'm glad there are so many different approaches, that way after a while I find things that resonate with me, and the rest fall away, but I often pick up other things along the way I never would have discovered otherwise. I suppose it's a saturation bombing technique, some of the bombs will hit target.

    As Bruce Lee said "Keep what is useful, discard the rest"
     
  8. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

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    For me plot can either happen by simply picking out a genre - romance, mystery, thriller, horror, dystopian - as by their sheer patterns you can basically guess where it's going and plot is only adding a character's past, motivation and goal into the framework.
    For instance Charlie and the Chocolate factory doesn't have a big plot it's a series of vignettes but by making Charlie poor and good and longing for a golden ticket you establish a fairy tale frame-work so that you're not surprised when like most fairytales his goodness has rewarded him with the ultimate prize.

    If you work on your mc's past which will establish their behavior - from goodness, to wariness, to flaws, and weaknesses - and give him a goal - then add in conflict. The only disappointing thing in Charlie and the Chocolate factory was Charlie faced no moment of temptation like the other children to misbehave but didn't. For your mc you should give him a temptation, or an antagonist - something that hinders him from achieving his goal.
     
  9. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I think Charlie did face temptation, though it's been so long since I've seen it. I remember just before the end, Willy Wonka offered him something and he refused it, which is why Wonka ended up giving him everything. It was a test of his purity I guess, like when Satan tempted Jesus in the desert. Oh, was it when he gave back the Everlasting Gobstopper?

    I also want to say there was at least a good 3-act structure, which I would consider a form of plot. A definite introduction, middle section, and conclusion.
     
  10. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Don't think that scene was in the book, but it's been a loooong time sense I've read it. Biggest difference I remember was that Charlie's father was still alive but certainly not well, toiling for pennies in a toothpaste factory, screwing the caps on the tubes. Then the poor prick lost that job... Dahl had a wicked sense of humor.
     
  11. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Oh my bad! I was thinking only of the movie. :whistle:
     
  12. Cephus

    Cephus Contributor Contributor

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    You need to have an interesting plot in order for readers to want to read your story, but how you come up with it and what steps you go through to get there in the end, that's entirely up to you. It gets better as you do it more and reading is absolutely essential to learning how good plots go together, but whatever works for you, that's fine. The method doesn't matter, only the conclusion.
     
  13. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I agree with the people saying how important reading is, but it takes a little more than that. You need to understand what to LOOK for when you read. If you aren't reading critically, paying attention to structure and how characters are used etc, you won't benefit from it much, except maybe through osmosis.
     
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  14. MusingWordsmith

    MusingWordsmith Shenanigan Master Contributor

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    Going back to the question in the title, I'd say it doesn't matter. You can suck at writing and still consider yourself a writer. Writers write. Not necessarily good writing but if you're writing, in my book you can consider yourself a writer.

    As for your system, hey if it's working for you then that's great! A big part of writing is figuring out your system. But if it's not really working for you, or you think maybe if you need to tweak it here or there-- then go experiment. Try new things. Don't feel forced into writing a certain way, either by advice from more experienced authors or by your own opinions.

    For it taking a lot of thinking and effort, well that might just be because you're inexperienced? The thing about writing is it's a skill you get better at as you go along. You have to sit down and think about things right now, that as you get more experienced as a writer you'll be able to do on instinct. Look into growth mindset vs fixed mindset too. You sound like you're in a fixed mindset as far as your writing goes, 'I can't do it so I'm a bad writer'. A growth mindset is more 'This is really hard and I'm not sure the end result is 'good', but I've learned how to do better next time.' Give yourself permission to suck, you might end up being surprised at how good you are!
     
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