How much help have you really gotten from other writers?

Discussion in 'Revision and Editing' started by aberdeen, May 22, 2014.

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  1. criticalsexualmass

    criticalsexualmass Active Member

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    I was absolutely convinced that this was a troll doing nothing but talking shit until maia stepped in and acknowledged that he had submitted something for her to critique.

    But it turns out that at least one of those essays is real. I would love to see it. See, I've only been taking my writing seriously for a short time, and I could truly benefit from the mastery of the craft that Aberdeen professes. If I could read one of those masterful essays it might change the way I look at my own writing. I've not read anything by someone so intelligent for a very long time, and if I were but allowed to have a peek into what he is planning to self-publish in just a few months I'm sure I (and many others here) would be induced into purchasing this soon-to-be-released collection. I think a lot of the negative posters here would be humbled by your skill. It would help to sell the collection that you are planning to self-publish in just a few months. Even the opportunity to read the letters that you sent to these famous authors would provide a window into not only your writing skills, but the reasons these professionals didn't respond.

    Help us understand. Take the time to post some of these letters and/or essays. Those of us that want to be writing geniuses but haven't made it yet could use the help.
     
  2. Ben414

    Ben414 Contributor Contributor

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    At this point, it doesn't matter if he is a troll (although I still think he is). If he says this:

    in conjunction with his other ridiculous diatribes, I don't care if this person finds help on this forum or any other. If anyone wants to help him, that's fine and their prerogative. But personally, I don't care. That kind of self-serving, egomaniacal, faux-logic (I'm better -> I deserve more than you) asshole-ism will get few favors in this world. Honestly, though, if you think your intellect is a sufficient condition for producing amazing writing or necessary to show your worth as a writer, you are dumber than you think or at least incredibly ignorant of your own craft.

    Finally, the fact that he submitted an essay proves nothing. It could have easily been plagiarized from elsewhere.
     
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  3. Burlbird

    Burlbird Contributor Contributor

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    @Ben414 he might not be a troll - that is, an internet entity that exists solely to feed on negative emotions and to manipulate its way to acquire them - but he is definitely trolling in most of this thread - that is, he manipulates a lot of us just for laughs. So I say: let's laugh with him - he showed how easy it is to take someone seriously on basis of good will, and how easy it is to irritate. Really, when someone repeats over and over again the most ridiculous things ("Me wants! Me special!") but masks them with elaborate plans, and everybody around still want to help them...well, isn't it hilarious? :D
     
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  4. T.Trian

    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Supporter Contributor

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    All right, let's settle down and refrain from personal attacks. They don't belong in this forum.


    Anyway, I'm pretty sure someone has probably pointed this out already, but it seems to bear repeating: even if the content of a piece of text contains brilliant ideas, if they are written in a way that only the author can understand, it's a model example of bad writing.

    Good writing is pretty much by definition understandable. Good writers are able to communicate complex, advanced concepts and ideas in a manner that even us "lesser humans" can grasp.

    And I really don't believe IQ has much to do with one's ability to write well. So much depends on the kind of test you take, its emphasis, and the types of questions used in the test.
    For instance, I completed my first IQ test at school, got 147, and later completed two different tests online and got 136 and 156. Yeah, that's a difference of 20 points right there.

    So you can see just how much the results depend on the type of test you take. That being said, IQ tests aren't much to go by when measuring one's skill as a writer, and I don't place much value on them otherwise either since even though I got pretty good scores in all three tests, it doesn't show much in my everyday life, and if I'm perfectly honest, I'm actually pretty dim and slow-witted.

    Besides, back then I was a horrible writer. Granted, I'm no Shakespeare even today, but I'm much better than I used to be, yet I believe it has little to do with my IQ, that it's mostly thanks to lots and lots of practice and studying. And listening to the advice of more experienced writers, something which hasn't been seen much in this thread despite plenty of good, solid advice.

    In a way, this thread (too) reminds me of the old zen story, A Cup of Tea, by the 13th century zen master, Mujū:
    Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.
    Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, and then kept on pouring.
    The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. "It is overfull. No more will go in!"
    "Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"



    ETA: @Burlbird, like I said before, this is a highly entertaining thread. :D All seriousness aside though, there's still value in the thread because there's some pretty good advice here amidst all the other silliness.

    ETA2: For some reason I always read your nick as "Blubird." :confused:
     
  5. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    @T.Trian, major kudos for the zen story.
     
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  6. T.Trian

    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Supporter Contributor

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    @thirdwind, I always liked those zen stories. I read that one in Zen Flesh, Zen Bones, which I found after researching my favorite novel, The Ronin, which is based on one of the zen stories in Flesh/Bones called The Tunnel.
     
  7. Burlbird

    Burlbird Contributor Contributor

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    @T.Trian zen rules! :) btw, I'm not quite sure how to pronounce "burl" ;)
     
  8. JetBlackGT

    JetBlackGT Senior Member

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    @aberdeen don't worry. We get it. Keeping in mind that the people on this forum are at the same level of writing skill as you, with one distinction.

    We are willing to put in the effort. We do it because we love it. Everyone told us that our writing was amazing as well.

    Your writing and attitude seem highly autistic. Not that there is anything wrong with that but it makes reading your self-aggrandizing paragraphs difficult. In the meetings at your organization, you will discover other self-important people. It is why so few people attend Mensa meetings. The people are exhausting!

    If no one is helping you, never let go of that wall you put up between yourself and "maybe-I-don't-deserve-it-yet".

    I've said it three times now... send your work to an agent. If your work is amazing, they will snatch it up and get it published. If not, they won't. They will not edit it and send it back. They will just send you a "no" and move on. They won't care how amazing you are. They will only look at your writing. Keep that in mind. You are exactly as special as every other person who sends them examples of their work. Only most of those people were journalists or have formal education in how to craft a story/esasy. In other words, they are far ahead of where you are.
     
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  9. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    he's only writing essays... and i can't imagine any agent being interested in a book's worth of never-published essays by a new and unknown writer... same goes for publishers...

    he needs to get a goodly number of them published in respectable publications, before anyone in the publishing world will take him seriously as a marketable author...
     
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  10. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    Outstanding! "Liking" wasn't enough.
     
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  11. JetBlackGT

    JetBlackGT Senior Member

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    No, nonono! Say it's not so! They will read his short stories and immediately recognize his undiscovered genius and drop EVERYTHING to lend him any and all assistance to become as rich and famous as he so richly deserves. He likes his own work so much; how can the rest of us not also feel blessed by the Muses that we were allowed to feast our eyes upon his words of gold? They should enrich our lives and fill us with wafting tendrils of hope for humanity.

    That's what I expect to feel anyway, if he ever acquiesces to send me samples of his writing. I am certain the quality of his writing will be leagues above mine. I probably won't even be able to understand it in all the layers of its brilliance. I will read it slowly, while moving my lips and sounding out the big words.
     
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  12. T.Trian

    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Supporter Contributor

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    Folks, it's time to give it a rest, there's no need for further ridicule. If there's nothing constructive left to say, it's better to move on.
     
  13. aberdeen

    aberdeen Member

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    All I want is some well known writer to take an interest in me and, assuming that I impress him or her enough, I can gain some useful contacts for the future. All the harsh negativity was unleashed with just a simple post- WOW. I was interested in posting essays but was told that I didn't meet the criteria to do so. They sure make it hard to have an essay be critiqued around here. Even if I did post one of them, it seems quite likely that those who disagree with my ideas or simply don't understand my high powered thought process wouldn't appreciate my efforts and subconsciously (or unconsciously) come up with all types of excuses to trash my work. I am not lacking in courage, so despite it all, I may very well end up posting some of my essays in the appropriate section of this forum.
     
  14. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Again, it's your job, as a writer, to make yourself understood.
     
  15. aberdeen

    aberdeen Member

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    Some people do have extraordinary talent but simply don't have the support structure that others do. This may not be the best analogy, but let's say that someone from a poor and/or minority background demonstrates tremendous potential as teenager or very young adult. What should be done about him (or her)? Their grades, test grades and other measures of performance can't be compared to someone who has all the advantages, although they have shown they have the potential. I am NOT talking about affirmative action here, with no special benefit granted just because of someone's race, social class, Should someone step in and help this person develop to the best of his extraordinary talent or not? If not, then this person will never make it.
     
  16. aberdeen

    aberdeen Member

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    FYI,

    Taking a few hours out of one's free time to read some essays by an aspiring and worthy writer such as myself and then providing some referrals and contacts hardly constitutes a handout. I must assume that you have led a standard life, with no major tragedy, and simply can't understand what it means to be very special.
     
  17. aberdeen

    aberdeen Member

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    So anyone who disagrees with you is delusional, narcissistic, or perhaps worse? How sad, how very sad indeed.
     
  18. aberdeen

    aberdeen Member

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    So anyone who disagrees with you has to be young and immature? In my fifty plus years, I have obviously grown well beyond the people here.
     
  19. aberdeen

    aberdeen Member

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    You obviously don't understand the highly gifted. Many of them have real issues to deal with, and in many respects they need more help than the typical standard product types on this forum. Give them a suitable environment and just watch as they make major contributions to the world.
     
  20. aberdeen

    aberdeen Member

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    I appreciate the often brutal honesty of your feedback and will keep it in mind as I use my knowledge, skills, and life experience to be the best writer that I can be. I have to go now. I wish all of you the best for the future.
     
  21. Ulramar

    Ulramar Contributor Contributor

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    Still awaiting that essay in my inbox
     
  22. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    At the end of the day, it all boils down to luck.

    The next Mozart in the depth of poverty and growing up in a broken home has one hell of a monstrous battle to fight. Much more than the next Mozart who grew up relatively comfortable with a well-adjusted, loving family.

    And sometimes, the poor Mozart-to-be who is in poverty simply doesn't make it because he/she can't get to the right people, because they've got more pressing matters to worry about.

    It's sad, it's unfair, it's...it's life.

    Some people just don't make it. We're lucky we're even in a position when we could actually stand a fighting chance to get our name out in the world. But even then, even then...we might not make it. Because life spares no one.

    EDIT: I hate to rent-a-mod, dude, but would it kill you to edit? Making more than one post in a consecutive row is a big "NO-NO".
     
  23. aberdeen

    aberdeen Member

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    I really have to go now but just one more thought. Are you telling me that a poor Mozart- to- be should not be helped?
     
  24. Ulramar

    Ulramar Contributor Contributor

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    No don't leave send me the essay.


    And we can't keep spending resources to find every possible Mozart.
     
  25. JetBlackGT

    JetBlackGT Senior Member

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    Me too.
     
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