Hello prietties! I'm interested in 1. Hearing about magic systems similar to my own that you've read about, so that I can try to distinguish myself further 2. Hearing your opinion on it! People gain specific abilities by burning a wooden figurine like a tiki whittling, called an Idol (or a Shape). Anyone can burn a Shape, but few can actually craft them - these are then called Shapemakers. However, Idol powers are often very awkward to use or have huge downsides, to the point that they are almost useless most of the time. Some powerful ones can take up to years to whittle, granting only an hour of use. Some have extremely peculiar or specific properties, for reasons I can't divulge yet. None of them really provide for classic cinematic action, like hurling fireballs and the like. Of course, some are just plain overpowered, but I'm trying to make sure these are highly unique. A good representative is one called Clandest: The wielder becomes invisible while holding it, yet the Shape itself remains visible. In practice this means that using Clandest requires great skill (and allows for some intense scenes), as a Shape moving in empty space would immediately reveal somebody spying, for example. Another is Shield of the Meek: While burning, the wielder cannot be influenced in any way by the effects of another Idol (harmed, controlled, whatever). But the duration of each individual Shape (i.e. concrete wooden figurine) varies highly, ranging from seconds to many minutes. This makes it extremely unreliable. If this has peaked your curiosity, rest assured you will make my day by asking questions!
I find this very interesting and that this has a lot of potential! Some things I thought of: if people try to make their own Shapes, it can have horrible consequences; there might be a black market for Shapes with mysterious... outcomes? Powers? Results? I would consider a name for what happens when they are burned; with the Clandest, does it have to be still burning to be used or does it work after burned partially?; a false religion or cult could form around some unused Shape (kind of like the Ember of Hoole in Guardians of Ga'Hoole: the Golden Tree); and, maybe, with each Shape used by anyone anywhere, there is a negative something created or that happens somewhere. Again, I like your ideas and think they have a lot if potential! Have fun with your writing!
I like the concept a lot. It's nice to see a magic system where the biggest drawback is inconvenience. A word of advice, though, if you want your system to stand out, originality isn't the way to go. It's all about execution. Make sure that it's used within the story in interesting ways that stay consistent with the rules. It also helps to have a couple of moments where the totems are used in ways that aren't inherently obvious. For example, the Shield of the Meek could be used by tricking someone who's buffed with multiple totems into holding it, then rushing that person before they realize what happened. Another piece of advice I'd give that I'm struggling with myself is to make sure that your system is easy to describe and fun to read while it's being used. I have a system that has an energy source that can either be used to power a special ability or make certain body parts stronger. I'm constantly trying to make phrases like "(name) powered up his right hand and (blah blah blah)..." It makes proof reading sections where the magic system is used a chore because it's just a mouthful. The idea itself is really interesting, just don't get hung up on making it different from everything else, and focus on making it interesting and fun to read.
Good to hear! I've excessively considered societal implications of my magic system. I have cults, economies, rulerships, private organizations, most of them already integrated into the plot. What I don't have yet is a cult centered on a particular Shape. Fantastic idea! As to the details of how burning an Idol works, there exists an entire science dedicated to exploring Idolic phenomena (in the particular case of Clandest, no, it has to be burning). There is an explanation for why they work as they do, but this is already getting into the rabbit hole...
Will do! Details and execution are precicely the reasons I've created this system so inconvenient in the first place. It forces me to spend lots of time having to devise strategies for using Idols effectively. And I do love to spend time concocting battle tactics, assassination methods, opressive systems and 1 v 1 scenarios. As to wording, this is an issue I still have to tackle, so thanks for your advice.
Have you thought about the flip side of this? You could have an awesome character or story involved with what happens when someone who isn't a Shapemaker tries this, out of desperation, need or greed, and turns into a hideous, horrible, bastardized monster of what they were trying to accomplish as a result. Just a thought to take or leave.
Thanks for the thought, one I have developed to completion, however . Some Shapes can be learned, some people have the ability to learn Shapes, and then this can vary to different degrees. I do not define the boundaries of Shapemaking and Wielding - the science of Idols is still being explored by the inhabitants of my world, undergoing hypothesizing, experiments, falsifications/confirmations as is to be expected from scientific endeavor. And worry not, I have a character for the job you propose!
Yes, I'm being tickled the right way. Would definitely be pulled to find out more about the magic system in the book with it. Love the rules so far.
Well, am considering posting my Almanac in the workshop, that might further stimulate your funny bone.
I recommend having reasons for things, but not necessarily letting people know them. Have them for the purpose of ensuring you operate a complete system of rules, but exposing them does two things: invites people to find holes in your system, and takes the mystery out of the story. For this reason, I suggest you not post your almanac, however curious I would be to read it. One question that came to mind: is your entire magic system frustrated by rain storms? This would make a great limitation, inasmuch as getting an Idol burning in a torrent might be massively difficult. And maybe there's a particular kind of wood, from an oilseed-bearing bush maybe, or a pitch-heavy wood, that is rare but very flammable. It is prized for carving Idols that work in the rain. If I don't stop here, I'll spend all afternoon musing on possibilities. Clearly you've tickled my fancy, so to speak.
I agree with this in all parts. You're going to lose interest if all the holes in the mystery for the reader of how the magic system works are already filled. You want to leave gaps for the reader that they can infer or glean off the writing over time. Avoid the information dumps and work through progression. Probably best that most of the characters don't fully understand these rules either, allowing the reader to discover them, if at all, with the characters as a base point. Otherwise you end up with a textbook effect, and that bores people.
Brilliant point on the rainstorms! Yes, it upsets the utility of Idols entirely. There exist specific Idols for creating fire even in difficult conditions, meaning that you might only need to get one of those burning and then it's easier to light the others. The idea with the flammable wood is not only fabulous but fits perfectly into my world, as I've alread created some fictional tree species. Thanks! As to how much I plan to expose the intricate machinations of the magic system... I largely agree with you on your point, and I never actually provide the reader with a "true" explanation (although I do have one in my mind, like you recommend). Much rather, the characters stumble onto different theories and interpretations (which can get pretty detailed!) throughout the story, some more plausible than others, and I try to leave it open to the reader to decide which is true. Well, I guess my almanac is going nowhere for now. If you have had a productive afternoon musing, I'd love to hear more of your thoughts!
That's one of the few crimes I'm actually not worried about committing. I'm 19 and therefore already allergic to textbook presentation. If anything, my pace might be too fast - I have to linger a bit longer on descriptions. And boy, do my characters not understand how things work
Hi, It's an interesting variation on basic enchantment, using shapes instead of glyphs or runes, and releasing the magic by burning it. But my thought would be about the economics of the system. If a shapemaker - I think I'd use a different name as that sounds clumsy - can spend weeks, months or even years crafting an idol, and it's a single use device that might have a big downside - who's going to pay him to do these things or buy his wares? I think my thought would be that it isn't always so costly to craft these things - maybe because the enchantment is simple or the wood used responds more easily. That way you get shapemakers able to sell minor idols and make a living during the day, while at night in secret they whittle on their masterpieces. The other thing I'd suggest is making the down side of using these idols more relevant to the magic. For example invisibility. If you think about it invisibility works (- usually) because light passes through or around the person. But if light passes through your retinas without touching them - you can't see anything. So the downside could be blindness. Lastly, I'd look at some sort of system for teaching shapes to shapemakers. Not necessarily a school or a master / apprentice situation. But maybe a master shape which anyone with the gift can copy. Hope that helps. Cheers, Greg.
Thinking up a magic system, and weaving a plot together, is one aspect of writing. However, that's only one necessary skill if you want to become a good writer. Getting the story to matter to readers is another skill altogether. I believe the trick to slowing a pace is to focus the story as strongly as possible on your POV character. (Or multiple POV characters if you have several.) Your POV character won't just be saying and doing stuff. The character will also be thinking, feeling, worrying, being hopeful, being confused, being angry (while possibly not showing it to others) being sad, etc. Slow the pace down—not by 'describing,' but by letting us engage with all aspects of this POV character's inner self. Give his thoughts and feelings as much prominence in your storytelling as his actions and speech. Don't describe the setting. Instead, describe how the setting affects this character. How does he see his surroundings? What concerns him at the moment? What does he notice? And why? Not only does this slow the pace, but it increases reader involvement in the story and aids in identification with your character. Just be careful not to do too much 'telling.' Don't tell us the character was 'sad.' Show us what makes him sad. Let us draw our own conclusions. Once you can do this sort of thing, your storytelling skill will take a huge leap forward. And the pace will slow to where the story really takes hold and bites. It allows us to experience the events of the story along with your characters, instead of just watching figures moving about on a board.
Hi Greg! I agree with you, economics are extremely relevant. They are one of my most thought through aspect: Yes, there exists an academy for Shapemakers in the eastern city of Ithonel, and various forms of teaching institutions across the world. Some Shapes like Shield of the Meek can be taught to non-genetic-Shapemakers, and in fact this becomes a huge project during wartime. There are guilds for legal Shapemakers, there are black markets. Shapes vary greatly in time needed to craft them, so indeed, some makers might be selling and producing regularly while others take a year to craft one and then have a huge haul. Pleased to inform you your "master Shape" exists ("Morbus") and plays a key role in the history of the world As to the word "Shapemaker"... it's only the particular expression used in the Eastern sphere (where my plot focuses). When something is talked about by so many people, the term tends to be molded by the wide populous, mostly poor uneducated people who don't have a sophisticated vocabulary. On the inconveniences: I precicely intend to make the downsides more context related than inherent to the magic, because this principle of "balance" or "trade off" I find already explored abundantly in fantasy. My best example is Nightslipper: If lit before you fall asleep, you can insert your consciousness into another sleeping person in the vicinity, leaving your previous body an empty vessel. This in itself has no handicaps and is ultra powerful. But only one character can craft it, and he uses a drug to fall asleep and knock out other people as well. Over time, he's become somewhat resistent to the drug, and also finds it impossible to fall asleep naturally. The sleep depravation is taking its toll on him physically and mentally, and it's clear that Nightslipper is more of a curse than a blessing. I really like the blindness idea, though! I'd have to adapt the plot, but what a good challenge!
Thank you very much! I'd love to hear what you have to say about a chapter of mine when I post it into the workshop.
This certainly sounds like an interesting idea. Have you read any Brandon Sanderson? If not I'd recommend reading his Mistborn series and maybe even his Reckoners series. He's great at coming up with magic systems/limitations and how they'd impact day to day life, and it may give you some ideas on how to go about writing this story.
Guess where my biggest inspiration comes from I romanticize this to be how I subconsciously baked my magic system: some mistborn dough with elantris sprinkles on top, drenched in narnia-cream and served alongside hawaiian mythology. Mmmmmm...
I'm doing something very similar in my novel and I got the idea from voodoo dolls. Burning the wooden figurine in different ways can either have a good impact or a bad one. My figurine usually represents a person though and needs something of theirs attached to it like hair or a tooth. I prefer the more realistic kind of magic to throwing fire balls and teleportation. I also saw a movie similar recently about an Indian voodoo doctor who used such figures to put curses on people but forgotten the name of the film. I like your idea and it has potential, just needs a bit more defining and adding to in my opinion. But good luck
Interesting, I got the idea from elaborately carved chess pieces I bought in a romanian village! I've even considered adding voodoo aspects, not decided on that yet... And what I was trying to say - there's no hurling fireballs and teleportation. (Except there actually is It's just that only specific monkeys can throw fireballs, and I have one MC who's the only one that can teleport. He has to die before the effect can take place however, and if too much time passes between his death and the burning of the required Shape, he won't be revived but just stay dead. He's so terrified to use it that he only does it like once or twice in the entire first book.) Also, this is no fresh pitch; it's been in the works for several years now. I wrote an almanac detailing every aspect of my magic system and featuring every Idol I've invented (dozens). Currently I'm working on a document explaining how certain Idols contribute to and mold my different cultures, from agriculture and economics to warfare and religion.
Idol worship usually lies in the idea of what it represents, not who made the item. It just feels off to me unless a special material or relic is used in a complex process. A year just for a one time use that mostly doesn't work? I'd rather leave that at home and take a spear if going to fight barbarians. A weapon that cannot be tested before battle is insanity. "Shield of the meek" Why stay if you can't fight? Just take civilians to a hiding place before your mana runs out!
I wholly agree. In the western sphere of my world, the predominant religion is a sort of animism, very reminiscent of real cultures that existed. Each Idol is said to channel a spirit. My "Spirit of Sycamore" fits the exact description of what you want - it's an Idol that has to be made from Sycamore wood, and is used in religious ceremonies in the East. Besides, I don't plan to adhere strictly to history - it's a fantasy story, after all. I may not have expressed myself clearly. If it takes that long to craft, the Idol is usually very powerful. It's just a general feature that Idols are impractical to use. An example is one Idol that lets you teleport - and requires you to die first. If a precise ritual isn't followed... you will stay dead. Still powerful! Absolutely a legit strategy. But imagine a rival army you consider evil relies heavily on a Shapemaker elite. You have the better trained soldiers, and Shields of the Meek. Equip your best fighters and send them after that elite - once they're dead, you will dominate the fight.
Hi, LazyB said something interesting which I thought I might just pick up on. It's about the word - Idol. When I read your post I was thinking simple enchantment - still am. But "Idol" goes back to a different sort of magic - graven images, faith, voodoo, priestly magic. I don't know whether that's part of what you intend but if it isn't maybe you need to use a different term. Cheers, Greg.
Something interesting I have to think about. "Idolatry" at its roots means the worshipping of an image, like a statue or a person that is not god. Which fits perfectly with the theme I'm trying to capture. Personally, I don't connect the term "Idol" with what you do. If this should really create a disconnect with my readers, that's a problem, but I hope not.
