Character development? Research? Let's stick it here. I'm thinking of giving my MC ADD/ADHD as a child that has either largely resolved itself by his current age (mid thirties maybe?). MC must be personable as he's a con-man, but he dropped out of high school and got a job in a warehouse/shipping facility, physical strength needed intelligence not essential. The thing is, he's not dumb by any stretch, just never took to school, so that when he has his accident (on-the-job electrocution that leaves him extremely weak on one side) he's not qualified to do anything, no college, no diploma, maybe no GED even, which is what drives him (among other things) into life on the grift. He needs to be bright because he needs to be a quick study when confronted with new situations, but he needs to have failed academically and have no professional skills to speak of. Does ADD fit this profile? Google says maybe, some people "get over it" or can otherwise train themselves to cope, but I don't want it to be a part of his current difficulties (the poor dude has a lot of problems in his life). Thoughts? ETA: SOLVED. I've decided the best way to approach it is to include some hints that could point to ADD, but without formally including the term. This relieves me of having to rewrite the character around the condition.
Assorted comments: - For context, I'm fairly sure that I have ADD/ADHD, though it's mild enough that I've never done anything about getting a diagnosis. - For reference, the first book to read is Driven to Distraction, by Hallowell. - The "How to ADHD" YouTube channel might also be useful. - I don't feel that ADD/ADHD is enough to keep him from getting a high school diploma, unless there were other substantial factors also making that diploma hard for him to get. - If it was so intense that he couldn't get that diploma, it's unlikely that it's going to quietly go away in adulthood. - I suspect that ADHD would make it even harder to hold a job in a warehouse/shipping facility than to get a high school diploma. That sounds like a job that would be pretty boring, the same thing every day, highly rule-following, fairly detail-oriented--not good for ADHD. I think you'd need to make the lost job something else.
[VERY ANGRY RED-FACED WRITER] So...so...are you going to explain everything in the first line, and then go on to describe your character? 'Bobby had ADHD [oh, I see] he swung on his chair and spat at the other students. [that's okay, I can understand you, baby] When he stole the teacher's truck [poor child]...' ... Diagnosis is for the white space, surely?
I was never diagnosed but I'm 100% sure I have it in spades. I dropped out of high school and got a GED when it was easier to back in the 90s. I finished school and got an associates in a trade which I took two job interviews for and never used, then I worked in some restaurants, and then I was a paramedic, and then I taught martial arts, and now I'm a stay at home dad / writer. When I started teaching martial arts, I was more than halfway though a BS in EE and dropped it. Now, I'm hyper obsessed with being a writer. I didn't drive a car until I was 23, and then I was driving an ambulance lights and sirens on the highway within three months of my first time behind the wheel. I wasn't too lazy or scared to drive before that--I just wasn't interested. It's like, maybe I have more going on than ADD, but I'll tell you, if you have it and you are a little smart and a little prone to obsession, you will find yourself able to learn skills quickly but tire of them just as fast. For me, nothing sticks unless it is compelling on a deep level, and very little is like that. I don't have any marketable skills, despite going to school longer than a doctor, and it doesn't bother me. I'm just always chasing something to hold my attention and keep me from being bored.
I wouldn't believe that ADHD that was bad enough to keep him from graduating on its own would simply go away, but... I'd believe that the ADHD, undiagnosed and untreated, gave him a really bad attitude toward school and possibly toward himself, and he started taking drugs/skipping school/screwing around in general and THAT kept him from graduating; I'd believe other combinations of factors that you come up with yourself that would keep him from graduating; I'd believe that he learned to MANAGE his ADHD later in life, so even if it doesn't absolutely go away he's got strategies that let him work through it. I work in education in Ontario, Canada, a province that scores well on international tests, dedicates a lot of money to education, and has set clear expectations of schools regarding graduation rates (to the point that many teachers feel they are REQUIRED to pass high school students even if the students haven't really earned the credit). We still have a hell of a time getting our graduation rate above 86%. So that's 14% of kids who, despite everything the schools are doing to drag them through, still don't make it to graduation. If the kid has a supportive family that will help make sure he doesn't fall through the cracks, ADHD (or a learning disability, or whatever else) will not interfere with graduation. But if the kid doesn't have that family support, it really doesn't take much extra to push them off track. I'd absolutely believe ADHD could do it.
Thanks to everyone who's chimed in, but this in particular hit a note that I hadn't mentioned. As hastily pecked out, the MC says that he live in one of those school districts where a bad grade got you a meeting with the counselor to plan out alternative learning strategies, it got a note home to your parents, and his dad's alternative learning strategy involved a leather belt. End of his junior year, MC figures he can take two more semesters of whuppin' or just strike out on his own and get a job, which lands him in the warehouse. He still reads on his own time and in his own interests, but never progresses academically. Ring true-ish? Or if anyone has any other good ideas, he must be: 1) Smooth/personable (so no autism spectrum) 2) Intelligent 3) Horribly undereducated in an "I've got a certificate/diploma/license" sense of the word 4) Reasonably able to cope with the rest of day-to-day living, as this is a comedy and not a movie of the week about Dealing With Issues and Conditions. Also, he has to have died for a little while, but I've got that one sorted.
Initially all that belt and buckle brutality gets the righteous condemnation and the state steps in goodly, pumps him full of obedience medication. We see in the film version a boy inspired by an old lady knitting long johns for Africa and he goes 'wild swimming' with her people on an organised adventure development project for society. He raises his hand in the front row of class when previously he dribbled in the far back corner. All that, maybe with some Joan Baez music? But somehow he looks out the window and sees his daddy hunting bears and masturbating from high rocks above the valley. He is drawn to this truth, and this manly society. That's kind of the film's conclusion when he gets the belt when his Dad is drunk. He shrugs and swallows some jerky, or daddy passes him the bottle and buys him a gun
Just a query here, but I was given to understand that ADD or ADHD doesn't go away as an adult? I thought it was a permanent condition, and people just find ways of dealing with it—or not.
My quickie internet research indicates that it can, in maybe a third of cases. Of course there's dispute on that, suggestions of misdiagnosis etc. MC will never be diagnosed, poor family in a shitty school doesn't have the resources or inclination, but he's speculating that he was ADD, I just need confirmation of whether or not,it's plausible.
I don't think the condition ever goes away, but I think the symptoms can be more manageable with maturity. Adults tend to be better at self-regulation, they tend to self-medicate more effectively (caffeine is better for ADHD than weed is!), they've learned strategies, etc.
My 21 year old daughter was diagnosed with ADD in 1st grade. She was medicated with various strengths and dosage schedules of Adderall for most of her life, plus she had a few years of CBT (Cognative Behavioral Therapy) in grade school that helped as well. Once she hit her junior year of high school her symptoms seemed to reduce drastically out of nowhere, to the point where she stopped taking the medication and she hasn't needed it since. I guess it's possible that her coping mechanisms started kicking in so automatically that it just seemed like she "grew out of it", but honestly in her situation it was like a switch had been flipped in her brain. Knowing my kid, I think it was a combination of the years of struggle and hard work on all our parts, and some kind of neurological change that took place in her noodle around 16-17 years old. All of that said, I don't think there's anything unrealistic about Ian's character having ADD/ADHD; between the wide spectrum of the condition's severity and the sociological/psychological environmental impact on the same, on an individual basis there are limitless outcomes for a person to wind up with. I found this list of noteworthy ADD diagnosed folks who are creative, intelligent, charismatic and successful: https://addadult.com/add-education-center/famous-people-with-adhd
Most of the drugs to treat ADHD are stimulants (to the point that Ritalin and other ADHD drugs have street value), so caffeine is just a slightly less precise version of the same thing. I saw an ADHD expert once who asked the audience to understand ADHD by thinking of themselves on a long car trip, struggling to stay awake behind the wheel. All the things you do as a sleepy driver? You fidget, you role the window down and try to bite the wind, you blast the radio and change stations all the time, etc. etc. If you were doing that in a classroom, you'd be acting like an ADHD kid.
It wasn't until the second year working on my psych minor that I was diagnosed as high functioning autistic, dyslexic, and PTSD sufferer. I was right pants at public and high school, because of the 'no, you're doing it wrong' method of teaching my teachers seemed to revel in. Not to mention I still can't grasp using long strings of numbers and spell check didn't exist for me back then and spelling errors always meant grade reductions. Not to mention school was boring as heck, so I very rarely behaved myself and frequently skipped classes because I'd already read the book and didn't feel like listening to the class recap. But, no, I was always a quick study when left to my own devices and kinda flourished in an environment that let me learn in my own way. It also helps immensely when it's a subject I'm interested in. I can seriously get obsessed with a subject and abandon society all obligations for weeks on end if I run into something to obsess over. IIn adult life it really only affect me in that I have a hard time empathizing with people, don't fricking touch me unless I'm in the right mood, and loud, high pitched noises (including some peoples voices) can cause me actual physical pain and make my brain spasm.
Yup, and they have more control over their work environment--that is, they have some control over the jobs they take, and therefore a shot at finding one that makes it possible for them to work. I feel the urge for an example of control over my study environment: Years ago, I was trying to memorize a big batch of formulas (thermodynamics? chemistry?) for a test, which was simultaneously intensely boring, and demanding of conscious attention--the worst possible thing for me. To make myself able to do this, I: - Propped the list of formulas on a high surface, so I could walk around. - Turned the TV on and loud. - Turned music on and loud. - I probably also had a bag of Cheetos to munch from. Oh, and Coke. Definitely Coke. - Got a little beanbag. - Walked around the room throwing that beanbag hiiiiigh in the air and catching it. All while reciting the formulas in my head. It was still a pitched battle, but I managed to memorize the formulas and pass the test. Odds are that a parent is not going to believe an eight year old's assurance that he needs to do this sort of thing.
I believe that ADHD is on the autism spectrum. However, I think that it's still possible to be personable.
Okay so: I know a lot less about ADD/ADHD than I'd like BUT I am officially on the autism spectrum and I want to say that wanting him to be 'smooth' does not discount autism as a potential thing. Autism makes it so that the social rules and 'codes' don't come naturally, but actually if he makes a point of 'studying' people and how they work, he could very well end up a 'smooth' personality while still being on the spectrum. In some ways it might make him even better, actually. I tend to try to figure out how people work 'under the surface'- I try to figure out how people work differently from person to person. So maybe he might be a little awkward, but at the same time he manages to do it in a way that also makes for a really good 'grifter' type.
Autism spectrum or personable? I Google and it appears that the official ruling is that it isn't. That feels like a change from a few years ago, but I could be wrong. I still believe that it is, but apparently the professionals disagree with me. I disagree with the professionals (vehemently!) on hoarding disorder, too, so this disagreement is not a surprise.
ADD/ADHD is often co-morbid with other conditions, of which autism can be one. My daughter's ADD was co-morbid with OCD and ODD, for example. None of the psychologists, psychiatrists, pediatricians, social workers, school administrators and teachers I've worked with over the years on my daughter's case (it truly took a village to raise that child) have mentioned autism and ADD being on the same spectrum, so it's definitely news to me.
What happened to your daughter must give other ADD people such a blast of hope. If she can do it, maybe they can too? Whatever made it happen.
I'm an adult, and I still suffer from ADHD. I don't know for certain if I am ever going to get over it. I did take medicine during middle school, but I've not taken medicine for a very long time. I'm going to college now, and I can still maintain pretty good grades for the most part. The most notable part of what it's like is not being able to focus on conversations. It's like missing bits and pieces of what a person has said to you. Also, I can get very hyper sometimes just out of nowhere. I also get into a lot of mood swings (For example getting depressed/frustrated.). I hope this helps!
It absolutely never goes away because it's a difference in genetic makeup, and it can't be cured, because it's not an ailment. There are coping mechanisms, sure, and there are degrees of severity, but if it went away, it was a misdiagnosis. Fact. It's really good of you to check this out before using it, because I and so many other people with this particular learning difference are so very tired of misinformation and misunderstanding, often in fiction, causing us even more problems than the condition by itself. The fact is, the ADD brain (yes, I'm using the old terminology) is different from the neurotypical brain in several ways. Some of these differences make things difficult in a world that requires a great deal of spontaneous recall, adherence to rigid schedules, firm deadlines and the ability to stay focused on one subject whether it interests us or not (that's the big one.) Unaddressed, these things turn A+ learners into C and D students and doesn't change in adulthood. We get fired for the same things that kept us off the honor roll as kids. Other aspects can be advantageous, depending on the environment, such as more creative problem solving, powers of hyper-focus when engaged with a subject and vastly superior multi-tasking abilities, not to mention a higher average I.Q. and tendencies toward creative expression. There was a book written years ago about ADD, and the title summed up the entire problem as I see it. It was called "Hunter Kids in Farmer Schools." It's not a learning disability, because we learn very easily. It causes problems, yes, but that's mostly because it's not accommodated. It's also highly heritable, which is fun, because generations from now, if trends continue, it may "afflict" a majority of the population, at which point societal expectations could conceivably be reconfigured in our favor, which would of course be just as unfair as the current situation. Sorry for the rant. I could have just said, "no, it doesn't fit." Then again, if you drop the "got over it" part, it could still make perfect sense. Some of us are much less forgetful than others, so that wouldn't have to be a part of it. We're easily distracted when bored, but hyper-focused when stimulated, and we're badass multi-taskers, so why not be a grifter? While most of us make it through school one way or another, without encouragement, pressure, a support system at home, ass-kickings at home, sympathetic teachers or any of the other things that helped or forced most of us through, he very easily could have failed out or dropped out and still been very bright or even a genius. That's completely believable, because it happens, less often than it did decades ago, but it does happen. This is especially true when anger issues and/or depression result from the frustrations inherent in the situation. There's also a higher tendency toward drug and alcohol experimentation and self-medication in adolescents with ADD, which of course ups the dropout rates. I don't know if you had anything like that in mind, but it's there if you need it. I hope that helps. ETA: After rereading your OP, I should mention, he'd probably have the same problems with menial labor jobs as he did with school, unless he found it particularly interesting, which he might.
