How to focus on writing?

Discussion in 'General Writing' started by BC Barry, Jul 4, 2016.

  1. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    And to write, one has to "show up on time" as you said in an earlier post? It's not writing unless it happened on a schedule? What if I write only when I feel like writing, but I do produce lots of words? Do those words not exist?
     
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  2. MusingWordsmith

    MusingWordsmith Shenanigan Master Contributor

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    I got my dad to put me on the family Spotify plan today, lots of exploring to do now! I've already got a few different playlists for different moods made, just need to find/add songs to them. I don't think I will do well with lyrics though- I'm very attuned to pay attention when I hear voices. I found one song that didn't even have lyrics but it had someone vocalizing musically and that didn't work for me. Too distracting.
     
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  3. Rzero

    Rzero Reluctant voice of his generation Contributor

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    Again, I'm not arguing whether success requires work. Nobody is.
    @Cephus, this is more what I'm talking about. You're telling people, not people in the abstract, but actual people on this forum, that they don't get to call themselves writers because they don't adhere to your work ethic. Do you really think that's right?
     
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  4. Cephus

    Cephus Contributor Contributor

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    I don't care what people call themselves, they can call themselves a chicken dinner for all I care. I am saying that if you want to be a writer, you have to write. It's in the definition of the word. Virtually any professional writer will tell you the same thing. Look at Stephen King, who has said things like "Amateurs sit and wait for inspiration, the rest of us just get up and go to work" and "If you want to be a writer, you must do two things above all others: read a lot and write a lot. There’s no way around these two things that I’m aware of, no shortcut."

    Far too many people expect writing to be easy and it's not. It's really, really hard. But the only way to get better at it is to do it. That means having the self-discipline to put your butt in the seat and your hands on the keyboard and just write. There are all kinds of ways to trick yourself into doing it, but at the end of the day, unless you write, you're not a writer. Far too many people today seem to think that everything has to make them happy and be easy for them to accomplish but that's not how the real world works. Writing is hard. You can't get better at it by thinking about it, only by doing it. Sorry if that makes some people unhappy.
     
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  5. SoulGalaxyWolf

    SoulGalaxyWolf Active Member

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    Yeah! It kinda takes away the whole "staring at a blank page" thing.
     
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  6. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    You’ve created a straw man here. You blustered that we have to show up on time arrr gnash spit!!!! And when we say that perhaps not everyone has to follow your personal decree to the letter, you claim that we don’t want to write.

    Stop tantrumming and go write something. On schedule, of course, or it doesn’t count.
     
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  7. Rzero

    Rzero Reluctant voice of his generation Contributor

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    No vocals, huh? Yeah, a lot of people can't tune it out. Do you like jazz? I mentioned bebop before. I recently discovered that the energy level and frantic nature of Charlie Parker, Charles Mingus, Miles Davis and the like are exquisitely conducive to productivity, at least for me. If those guys are too experimental though, try Count Basie - he's more blues-y - or Duke Ellington. His later work is almost classically composed. People actually called him the American Bach. All of these guys recorded with vocalists periodically, but the majority of their work was purely instrumental. That may all be completely useless information for you, but if you're into it, let me know. I'll PM you a list or something. I missed out on so much great music for years because I didn't know where to start, and I didn't know anyone to ask about all the different types of jazz, which are almost as varied as all of pop and rock combined (genres I also have a great deal to say about, but they almost always involve lyrics, so that wouldn't help you much here.)
     
  8. MusingWordsmith

    MusingWordsmith Shenanigan Master Contributor

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    Hm I don't really listen to jazz, I'm very selective about music- most of what I listen to is Gospel honestly, so even just finding writing music is a bit out of my usual zone. (So far I've just grabbed a lot of Mozart songs.) I might give those folks a try though, although at the rate I'm going I'm going to get overwhelmed with songs.
     
  9. Rzero

    Rzero Reluctant voice of his generation Contributor

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    I kinda feel like ya do though, because:
    Again (again), no one's arguing with the fact that to get published and to be a professional writer, you have to work hard. No one's going to concede that point to you, because unless I missed a post somewhere, no one disagreed with you in the first place. There's no reason to keep saying it unless you still think that's the only way to be a writer, in which case, we are absolutely disagreeing with you.
    I know. I read On Writing, recently, in fact. Have you read it? Please don't think I'm being snarky asking that. I just have no way of knowing whether you read those quotes in the book or on a google search. Either way, they're valid points. If you haven't read it though, you should. I found it both inspiring and illuminating. It was invaluable even. I've recently changed several terrible habits that have caused me to struggle for years, and I'll gladly credit Stephen King with half of that. I would say it was more than half, had I not read a lot of the same advice from other authors and publishers, but that just strengthened my faith in the text.

    That book isn't for everyone though. That book is for people like you and me who want to make a career out of this, people who feel called to the craft. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else. He's actually pretty rude about the aspirations of the undedicated. He even says fairly judgemental things about the work ethics of several celebrated, genius writers who happen to be less prolific than he is, so take his "2000 words a day even on Christmas" rule with a grain of salt. Most professionals I was able to find interviews and advice from (Please don't make me look up the examples. I don't wanna.) write a quarter to half of that a day (a few claimed even less) with holidays and sick days off, some of them five days a week. What else would you expect to hear from Stephen King though? He's published 450,000 page books, and still averages two to three volumes a year.
    Yeah, again (again (again)), we know.
    That's not what's making people unhappy.

    Here's the thing: You and I aren't the only kind of writer. I'm happy for you. If I knew you personally, I might even be proud of you for working so hard to achieve what you want. I hope you accomplish great things. I'm working very hard myself these days, and I'm very proud of the strides I'm making, but our goals are not the only things that qualify someone as a writer. It's not an official title. It's not like saying you're a lawyer or an architect. There are specific qualifications for those titles. There's no quota either. Maybe you didn't like my cyclist analogy, so here's one you might find a little more relevant: I play several instruments. I wouldn't necessarily call myself a musician, but many people with my level of talent and dedication, which is to say very little, do consider themselves musicians, and that's fine. We play because we enjoy it, and we might share something with friends. We might even record just for fun, but we're never going to cut an album or go on tour. What's wrong with that? I don't need to hear Dave Grohl quotes about how and why I'm never going to be a rock star, especially on a forum where I go to discus music with fans and musicians of all levels. I not only know that I'll never be a rock star, I'm quite content with it and don't deserve to be insulted. Maybe insult is not your intention, but surely you can see why people are taking offense.

    ETA: That crack about my lack of talent on the guitar was not meant to reflect my opinion of anyone's writing talent. That was just a little harmless self-deprecation and was not intended as part of the analogy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
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  10. Alan Aspie

    Alan Aspie Banned Contributor

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    Rah3.

     
  11. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I'm not sure why anyone is upset about what @Cephus is saying. All that's really being said is writers write. Personally, I do think a schedule helps produce more and better work FOR ME. Sure, you can write whenever you want, but that doesn't change the fact that writers write. Sure, thinking about writing can be part of it, but if you don't actually write those thoughts down, it could just mean that you have a great imaginations. We're here to give each other tips and talk shop because we're writers. And I sort of assume the people on this forum are writing and not just thinking about writing. And if there are people thinking about writing more than actually writing, I encourage them to flip the script. Get those thoughts and stories down on paper.
     
  12. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I have never heard such advice and this would not at all work for me. I didn't plan or outline my novel. And before I even knew what I wanted to write about I knew I wanted long chapters. As I started writing I started thinking about what sort of story would work with this format. Thinking about chapters and what they do and what goes into a chapter have helped me stay on track for progressing with my story. Of course, people can write their novels anyway they want. But the idea of writing a story without chapters just seems like things it could too easily turn into quite the mess, in my opinion.
     
  13. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    No, that's really not all that's being said. If it were, I, for one, wouldn't be annoyed with him.
     
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  14. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I read through the thread and to me it didn't seem like more than that was really being said. What am I missing? I ask that question honestly because I'm a little confused if that's not the gist of what's being said.
     
  15. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    One of the issues was this:

    Apparently we have to do our writing on a schedule, write until we accomplish something every single scheduled time, etc., etc. In other posts, as I recall--and I could dig these up later--he insists that we have to treat it like a job, and he's making a fuss about earning money at it. We have to do it HIS way. If we don't do it HIS way, that means that we're not going to write any words. HIS way is THE way.

    There are countless ways to get words written. He doesn't seem to comprehend that.
     
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  16. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    That was a quote or paraphrase from Stephen King On Writing not Cephus's own words... and King is talking about if you want to succeed as a commercial author

    I'm fairly sure that King knows there are many ways to get words written, but he also knows that if you want to be a success you have to actually write books.

    Of course if you don't care about commercial success you don't have to actually get your arse in the chair and write words on a regular basis, but if you do, you do
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
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  17. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    I'm not a huge fan of classical for writing. Too.. bouncy and not enough of a beat. Chillstep's where it's at for me. Solid rhythm with repetitive licks and themes helps get my brain going without being distracting.

     
  18. Shenanigator

    Shenanigator Has the Vocabulary of a Well-Educated Sailor. Contributor

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    I can't read with music on at all. It fucks with my dyslexia. Conversely, I have to have the TV on in the background to write (usually to drown out my noisy street).
     
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  19. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I just took it as sort of encouragement for those struggling with a writing schedule and/or maintaining it. I don't think you have to write on a schedule if that's not something that works for you, but some of us need that sort of thing to really get things done. I've worked both ways and found that a schedule of sorts really helps me. It might help others is how I see it. But I totally believe that not everyone needs a set routine to be productive and accomplish things. And I think just the fact that you sit down and do the writing is an accomplishment. I sure as hell don't know what more you could expect to accomplish in a writing session. Some people set a word count or like to finish chapters or whatever. I don't bother with those things and still feel like when I write I accomplish something.

    I've been hearing the whole treat-writing-as-a-job thing forever. And I've adopted this approach. It works for me. If I hadn't done this, I don't believe I would be able to write the same way. It helped me get better faster. But I'm fully aware that some people are naturals where almost everything they write is pretty good. Personally, I have to write a lot of bad to write the good stuff. And even then my work often calls for endless revision. I know that I have to work harder than some others so I do. If I didn't start thinking about it this way, I'm not sure how long I would have tried to publish without giving up. It took me hundreds of rejections to sell a story. I needed to say, okay, this is my job and focus and I'm going to put the hours and the work in to even be able to write enough to get so many rejections. Some of us have to try harder than others. So, this sort of thing can work for some.

    A lot of writers want to sell fiction. And the competition to publish is insane. I guess when you start to think about publishing you think about money. Writing now is my job and I just love making $1,000 a year. ;)
     
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  20. Cephus

    Cephus Contributor Contributor

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    Nobody said that. Nobody ever said you had to do anything. But if you want to be a writer, you have to write. Thinking about writing isn't writing. Wishing you could write isn't writing. Making excuses for why you're not writing isn't writing. The biggest skill that any writer can develop is self-discipline. It's making yourself sit down and do it. It doesn't matter if you feel like it, it doesn't matter if you feel inspired, it matters that you do it. This kind of whining is childish. I don't care if you make money at it. I don't even care if you do it at all. It's no skin off my backside what you do. But a writer who doesn't write isn't a writer. They're a wannabe. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.
     
  21. Cephus

    Cephus Contributor Contributor

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    Exactly. That's what writers do. They write. It's the definition of the word. And writing, whether people like it or not, is not an easy thing to do. It takes long hours and personal dedication to get it done, whether you're a professional novelist or a fanfic-writer posting online. But far too many people want to think there's a trick to it, that there's a secret that will magically make it all easy to do. There isn't. Writing, no matter what you write, no matter why you write, is butt-in-seat-pounding-on-keyboard dedication. That's all there is to it.

    When people come here, and it isn't just here because it happens in every writing forum or website or subreddit, and they say they want to be a writer, I ask what they've written. It doesn't have to be professional, it doesn't have to be good, it doesn't have to be published, but what have they done? Because wanting to write isn't the same as writing. Reading books about writing isn't writing. Watching YouTube videos about writing isn't writing. They might help you get ideas on what to write or how to write or how to improve your writing, all of that is great, but the first, last and only step to being a writer is writing. I have no idea why people get their panties in a wad when people say that.
     
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  22. Rzero

    Rzero Reluctant voice of his generation Contributor

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    That was the problem. That was the sentiment that was specifically denied repeatedly and caused some hurt feelings.
    Beacause this is a way cooler attitude to have. Encouragement beats beratement all to hell.
     
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  23. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    @Rzero -- I'm not sure what the problem is. I say this in all honesty. You quoted me on half a sentence. I'm saying people can write whenever they want if that's what works for them. And I clearly expressed FOR ME a schedule has really produced great results (sometimes). How does telling people they can write whenever they feel like it hurting anyone's feelings? How is my personal experience and a little advice that could help someone a problem? How is saying writers have to actually write a problem? I'm a little lost with this discussion, I guess. Didn't know there was a right or desired response to this thread.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  24. Shenanigator

    Shenanigator Has the Vocabulary of a Well-Educated Sailor. Contributor

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    Because nobody needs you to say that. There is not one single person on this Forum who does not know that, or who needs you to say it. Despite the tone of your posts, the people here aren't idiots, and they don't need you talking down to them.

    I'm blunt as hell, but jeez, even I'm thinking "dial it back, dude."
     
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  25. Rzero

    Rzero Reluctant voice of his generation Contributor

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    I think you misunderstood. I just agreed with you. I quoted the parts of your reply that were not what Cephus was arguing. You said you didn't understand why people were upset. I was trying to tell you why, and that's because what you said, and I agree, is that working hard and writing on a schedule is how we make this a profession, but it's also fine to not write on a schedule. This whole thing started because Cephus said it's a job, which is fine, but when @ChickenFreak and others said it can also be a hobby or any number of things in between, Cephus disagreed vehemently. I liked what you said. I was trying to tell you that your version is a lot better because it was encouraging and inclusive. I apologize if that was unclear.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
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