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  1. daringderek

    daringderek Member

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    How to protect work entered into contests?

    Discussion in 'Research' started by daringderek, Apr 1, 2019.

    Hello, all! I'm pretty sure this question has been asked before, but I plan on submitting my short story into one of several contests I've been circling.

    And while I understand that as the author, I technically own the copyright of anything I write/submit into a contest, that protection isn't always guaranteed apparently...unless the copyright is "registered" which I believe is only a reserved option for legal purposes; suing for plagiarism, etc.?

    I'm not sure if there's really a point in taking things that far, I'd simply prefer not to see my work entered into a competition only to be swindled at the end of the day. Any tips on how to avoid illegitimate contests or suggestions of ones that aren't sketchy? Thanks!
     
  2. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I don't have tips for you re contests, but I wanted to note that registering your copyright isn't going to help either. It might (I don't know the law) increase your ability to sue for damages, but it's not going to un-do publication; if someone publishes your thing illegally, first publication rights are gone.
     
  3. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    You can certainly register the copyright. It's relatively inexpensive and you can do it online. If they take your work and you want to sue, you generally have to be registered (under U.S. law, that is). Registration also opens the door to the only damages likely to make an infringement worth pursuing.
     
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  4. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    Professionally paying journals, magazines, and anthologies reject publishable and entertaining stories all the time. Free genre fiction magazines sometimes have GREAT stories written by people with 20+ credits to their name. Everyone wants their own stories published, and editors are looking through lots of good material for what they personally want or like the most.

    My laptop is pretty nice, but I can leave it sitting unattended for any length of time in a Starbucks and no one is going to touch it, because they all have their own computers and they like coffee too much to act wrong in their spot. Same thing with a short story.

    Jokes and non-fiction book proposals are more vulnerable, from what I've heard, but short stories? I wouldn't worry about it much, personally, imo.
     
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  5. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    When I worry about work being exposed, I don't worry about it being deliberately stolen and published--who's going to want a manuscript from a not-yet-published author?

    But I would worry, if I were participating in Joe's Big Short Story Contest, run from his garage, that Joe might be sloppy about protecting the work, and my work might be exposed to the Internet without a password, and thus arguably "published". Or Joe might be incredibly confused and actually put the stories up on his blog or something.

    So while I care about honesty, I think that competence is the more likely issue.
     
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  6. Matt E

    Matt E Ruler of the planet Omicron Persei 8 Contributor

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    Registering a copyright just makes official the rights that we already have, so I’m not sure it would be that useful. I am not a lawyer of course.

    I probably have a diffeeent perspective on this than a lot of people, but I put my ability to produce short stories at a higher value than individual short stories that I create. If I created something I consider to be a true gem, I’d hold it very close and only submit it to publications I trust. If I didn’t, I’d submit it to a few contests and eventually post it on my blog.
     
  7. XRD_author

    XRD_author Banned

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    A recent US Supreme Court decision, Fourth Estate Public Benefit Corp. v. WallStreet.Com, held you have to register your copyright before you file suit for copyright infringement, but once you register you can sue for infringement that occurred before the registration. The rights are "official" on creation of the work, they're just not litigatable.

    I don't know how it is in other countries.
     
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  8. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    Do you know how many people enter short story contests? No one has time to read each story to the end let alone look for work to steal. If the story is that good, it might win or you could get an offer for them to publish it. Honestly, this is something newer writers seem to worry about way more than they should. If you've done your research and know where you want to submit, there probably isn't going to be any problem. In fact, going through the whole process of getting your work registered or copyrighted is going to make you look like an amateur. It's nice to think our work is so good that anyone who gets a chance will steal it, but it really doesn't work that way and we aren't usually as good as we think.
     
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  9. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    I think it rubs people the wrong way. This isn't nice of me, but I have backed out of beta reading 2-3 novels because the writer sent me a non-disclosure agreement to sign before I looked at it. Like, I didn't know I was dealing with Nora Roberts. The first thought that runs through my head is, "Okay, what happens if I send you something to read without a NDA?"

    Imagine if you visited a friend's house for the first time and as they get up to go to the bathroom, they say, "don't take anything." You going to invite that person over to your own house?
     
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  10. Fallow

    Fallow Banned

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    I think it is worthwhile to consider what is really at risk here. How much monetary or future career risk could one story possibly bring anyone?

    If you wrote something that someone wants to publish and they can't because of some rights issue, they will probably want to publish one of your other excellent stories. No one is going to get rich off a short story, and if you become a successful writer publishers will be perfectly happy to put your work in a collection, even if it isn't the first publishing.

    There are so few short stories that are truly, importantly famous. Authors are loved for the multiple short stories or their novels, not for one story.
     
  11. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    This is true for novels that you're going to submit to traditional publishers. Not for short stories.
     
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  12. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    This is not true in the U.S. There are a lot of rights, some of which are the only thing that make an action for infringement remotely feasible, that are only available to you if you have a timely copyright registration. And you need to have that registration in hand before you can file suit for infringement.
     
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  13. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I can say for sure it is true when it comes to short stories and submitting and publishing them. I've been in this game for a pretty long time now and do know how things work. I also don't see why it would be any different for short stories. I've worked at a few publications and I can assure you I have never come across a submission that was registered or the author went through the trouble of getting an official copyright. It's just not something that the professionals are doing or are concerned about. I speak from my experience. I think anyone who goes to all that trouble to enter a contest or to submit to a magazine is going to look a bit ridiculous. It's just not standard or how business is conducted in the short story world.
     
  14. Fallow

    Fallow Banned

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    Just curious - how would you know if a story had an official copyright or not? Did you look them all up on the government database?

    Seems like something anyone could do for their own protection, but not mention if it isn't an issue.
     
  15. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    I don’t agree. The difference is, traditional novel publisher is going to register the copyright for you. If you do it yourself, that pegs you as an amateur. Short story markets are not going to register the copyright for you. You’ll be left to do that yourself, and if you don’t do it timely you lose rights. If you want those rights and protections it is up to to register in a timely fashion.

    But the short story market should never even know you have a registration, unless you put a copyright notice on your submission (which DOES look amateurish).
     
  16. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    You could look it up, but usually an editor only knows if the author includes a copyright notice, which is bad form.
     
  17. Fallow

    Fallow Banned

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    So plenty of it might have been officially copyrighted, as you wouldn't know unless they told you. That seems to solve the apparent conflict between protection and bad form, should anyone be inclined to pessimism.
     
  18. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Yes. Though in the case of a traditional publisher who is going to seek to register the copyright, it will be apparent after the fact that you already did it. Probably no harm done by that point, however. But it's an unnecessary expense.
     
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  19. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I don't know how you can disagree with my experience which I clearly stated. I have NEVER known a short story writer to seek out a copyright. Isn't work published in magazines copyrighted? I'm just saying, someone will look like an amateur if they send in a submission with that little symbol. And what's the point of registering it if you are going to leave it off? Maybe someone with this much concern shouldn't be entering contests then.
     
  20. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    You may have experience with short story writers, but you don't understand that law on this subject. That's clear from your "what's the point" question. A copyright notice isn't required under U.S. law, so including it or not isn't the significant consideration when deciding whether to register. A timely registration IS required if you don't want to give up important rights relating to your work.

    U.S. law is quite clear on this. See 17 U.S.C. section 412, which states:

    "...no award of statutory damages or of attorney's fees, as provided by sections 504 and 505 , shall be made for--

    (1)  any infringement of copyright in an unpublished work commenced before the effective date of its registration;  or

    (2)  any infringement of copyright commenced after first publication of the work and before the effective date of its registration, unless such registration is made within three months after the first publication of the work."


    I don't know a lot of short story markets that register the copyright for the author, if there are any. For short stories, that responsibility generally falls to you as an author. You may decide it's not important enough to do and that you're willing to give up rights that make enforcement of your copyright potentially viable. That's fine, and can even be reasonable, but that decision should be made with a clear understanding of the law and what you are giving up.

    As for putting the copyright notice and symbol on the work you submit, I already said above that's an amateurish thing to do, so we agree to that extent. However if you want the benefits of copyright registration for a short story, you're generally going to have to do that yourself, and if you don't do it in time the benefits are lost.

    For traditional book publishing, as I said above the publisher does that for you--you may even see a term in the publishing contract that says if the copyright hasn't been previously registered the publisher will do it. Short story contracts usually don't include that term and the publisher usually does not register the copyright for you.
     
  21. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    So, is work published in a magazine not copyrighted? A magazine doesn't have a copyright? The New Yorker isn't copyrighted? No publisher has ever said to me or anyone I know, "We want to publish your story, but if you want it copyrighted, that's up to you. It sounds absurd. I'm not saying you do, and you clearly know legal stuff. I know the way magazines and journals work. If magazines aren't copyrighted, I'm sure the work is somehow protected. Like if I have a short story with a byline in The Paris Review, someone can't just take it and put there name on it and say they wrote it. First, it would ruin any chance of a literary career. And, second, it would still be stealing. And, third, I just don't think any of it happens too often. Isn't it true that something is copyrighted the second you write it whether it's officially registered or not? This thread was about a short story contest. I think it's a little extreme to go through all this to enter a contest or submit your work. The pros aren't registering each story before they submit to publications. Again, I have never heard of any writer doing so, except maybe newish and scared writers who haven't realized no one is out to steal their work. Try selling short stories. Try giving them away. It's really tough to publish these suckers. It's easy to get our hopes up with the idea of a contest, but the odds are stacked against us. I would spend more time worrying about the story I was going to submit than if anyone was out to steal it. I'm not sure how much more registering a story would do for a writer. That little symbol isn't so scary. But if I saw it on a submission or the writer said in a cover letter that they had registered it, it would look kind of stupid to me. And I have been a reader in more than one contest. Never have I come across this.
     
  22. Fallow

    Fallow Banned

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    The only reason to register it is to be able to make a claim in court later should someone do something like accidentally "publish" your story on the internet, losing first publishing rights for you.

    In that case, if the story is registered, you would have more ability to sue for damages from that negligence that prevents you from getting that story genuinely published.


    I agree that this involves paranoia and a series of unlikely events, but that's the answer to your question. If an author wants to 'secretly' register their story, the fee is $35 and they will receive certain legal protections regardless of whether they put the R mark on the work or not.
     
  23. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    In the US, registering copyright gives you access to significant damages you can't get if your copyright isn't registered. (as an aside, I think this is a terrible system that totally violates the spirit, if not the letter of the law from the Berne convention.)

    But I don't think I've ever made more than about $1K on a short story, and my average income would be much lower than that. I really don't think there's enough money in the market to make a court case even remotely viable, and if you're not going to court, then the damages you could potentially be awarded in court don't matter, so registration doesn't matter.

    Back to the OP - you protect your intellectual property by only submitting your work to reputable contests/agents/publishers. And you resign yourself to the plague of piracy that seems to infect just about every work as soon as it is digitally available.
     
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  24. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    $35 to register. $10 to $25 to enter each contest. Those are some pretty expensive form rejection letters. I tend to think most contests are a waste of money. If I had any fear of a place stealing my work, I simply wouldn't PAY to enter that contest. Contests can be a big money waster. Every short story submission you make is basically like entering a contest. Your story still has to be better than the rest. Most submissions to contests and publications really aren't all that great, but the author thought they were. And no rebatable publication is looking to steal work from a writer. They want to buy it if it's any good.
     
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  25. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    That’s what statutory damages are for, however. You get from $700 up to $30,000 per single infringement. If it is willful infringement, you get up to $150,000 per infringement. The attorney’s fees provision also makes it more attractive to an attorney who might take the case on a contingency. The damages are not your “actual damages” from the infringement.

    Not saying in any given instance one will decide that a short story registration is worth it (though it is cheap and you can register multiple works together). Just that it is important to know what you’re giving up when you don’t register.
     
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