How to start my Book (The Descendant, Or the Song of Gods and Men)

Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by AsherianCommand, Jul 11, 2014.

  1. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    Ain't that the truth! One of the reasons I am so looking forward to retiring next year is that it will give me (I hope) the time to devote to my writing for which I have longed these past decades.
     
  2. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    And anybody who thinks retirement means an end to outside committments is daft as a brush. People think "Oh, she/he's retired, she's got LOTS of time for this and that, so we'll just get her to do it." You'll spend lots of time in front of the mirror practicing the word 'no,' or you'll end up swamped! For some reason, a retiree's spare time is always up for grabs. I guess you always have to find time to write, no matter what your age and circumstances may be.
     
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  3. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    Which is why I said, "I hope". :unsure:
     
  4. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    I think it depends on what you want out of the readers and what the plot demands. Some prefer to throw them into the thick of things and leave the readers lost and confused at the chaos around the. Others prefer to start off more gently. Peace and quite before things start rolling. Then up the tension bit by bit until you reach a crescendo.

    If the plot demands that you start off in a fight, or with someone fleeing from danger, then start from there. If, on the other hand, it demands that you start off with the character casually smoking in the den while watching her favorite late-night TV show before all hell breaks loose, then do that instead.

    I can't really *tell* you how to start your story other than to make sure the story hook starts on Page 1, not Page 50. My creative writing teacher once told us of the time she had a conversation with a student. It went like:

    Student
    But it gets better in the middle of the book.

    Creative Writing Teacher
    Then start there.

    Whether you start it off in the heat of the action or peacefully is up to you, just make sure the hook is on Page 1.
     
  5. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    It's one of those 'start as you mean to go on' issues. Make sure you let everybody know that you're 'retired' but that doesn't make you more available to the sturm and drang of other people's lives. You have a writing schedule to keep to. I wish I'd done that. I'm trying to re-establish a firm schedule now, but it's difficult after the fact.
     
  6. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    In my circumstances, I know that my advocacy activities will almost immediately demand a lot more of my time. OTOH, since those activities affect my children, I can't "just say no". At the same time, it won't be a 40 hour per week drain, so right there I gain. So, as much as I'd like to think I'll have a writing schedule, it will have to be flexible.
     
  7. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    Disagree. I'm not saying starting a novel with something casual and peaceful can't work, but I have yet to see anyone on the workshop do it successfully.

    Literally every time someone starts off their work like this, that persons intro gets critiqued unfavorably.

    The problem is most beginner amateurs (and id say most amateurs period) struggle with making ther sentences count. When you decide to write a sentence abou something "casual" it's that much harder to achieve purpose.

    There's no shame in starting off with an easier route when you're just starting.
     
  8. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    Starting off with "peace and quiet" can work, but only if there is an element of disquiet, a sense of problems-a-brewin'. Otherwise, why should the reader keep reading? The reader may want the hero to succeed in his quest, but it is the possibility that he may not, or that succeeding may carry a dreadful cost, that keeps the reader reading.

    You don't have to plunge the reader into the heart of the problem (although that is one way to go). One can approach it incrementally - a small annoyance that later grows into a problem that at some point morphs into a life-or-death crisis. Drury's Advise and Consent, a brilliant political novel, begins with Bob Munson waking up and finding out the President has made an appointment for Secretary of State that will be difficult to get approved by the Senate, and being cheesed off because he anticipates the a hard battle. That's enough to draw the reader in, but it doesn't begin to hint at the level to which the conflicts will rise or the lives it will cost. Dickens in A Tale of Two Cities begins by not telling us anything about the characters or their coming struggles, but instead paints a setting in which everything is in turmoil. Zounds!!

    I will respectfully disagree with @123456789 - or maybe just add a clarification. I don't think the problems that most amateur writers have is not making their sentences count. I think the problem is that too many of them hold back out of lack of confidence, thereby making the perfect the enemy of the good (well, maybe that's why they don't make their sentences count). Rather than agonize, just write it. Get it down on paper, or into bytes, see how it looks, compare it to openings you love, and make changes as appropriate.
     
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  9. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    Tension is tension. My own example further up this thread started with a mom annoyed with her kids. It doesn't have to be explosive, but "casual," (not used by you, Ed) is a dangerous word to associate with any scene, especially the intro.

    Let me clarify what I mean by not making one's sentences count.

    Excess words. Redundancy. Cliches. Unclear meaning. Unnecessary descriptions. These are just a few very common traits you see on many first, second, and third attempts here, all of them which prevent any given sentence from achieving maximum efficiency. It doesn't matter how low key your story, there needs to be a driving force forward. I will concede that for master writers, the strength of one's own voice might be able to replace the onward rush of a tightly focused narrative, but that's not really helpful here.
     
  10. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    All good points, a bit different from the holding back issue I was talking about, but, now that I think about it, part of the same problem - "this has to be awesome!" combined with "I have to cram it all into the first two paragraphs."

    One of the reasons I like Hemingway so much is that he wrote almost as if he were trying oh-so-hard not to be awesome. On the journalism side, Jimmy Breslin always struck me as kind of the same way (well, actually, he struck me as too busy trying to piss off the establishment to worry about being awesome).
     
  11. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    Yes, I have heard that the mark of a good writer is to make it appear like just rolled out of bed and put the words on paper. I absolutely agree.

    Holding back is part of the problem. I like to think of it all as one big cloud of massive confusion. Starting out, you're not really sure of where to start, and what to try, and the end result is a lot of ambling and or shaky sentences.

    If a beginner were completely in the zone, focused, relaxed (maybe from some medication ;) ) I'm sure their words would come out much more fluid and direct.
     
  12. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I like what I've just been reading in Story Trumps Structure, by best-selling and award-winning writer Steven James. He says:

    "If you're writing a full-length novel, you don't need to bend over backward trying to be clever in the first line or two. Readers will understand that there's a lot of story to tell, and they'll give you some space to do that. Don't rush the opening.

    "In essence, the beginning of a story sets readers' expectations and reveals a portrait of the main character, typically by giving them a glimpse of her normal life.

    "For instance, if you introduce readers to your protagonist, Frank, the happily married man next door who doesn't have a care in the world...readers instinctively know that Frank's idyllic life is about to unravel and be turned upside down. Something will soon rock the boat and he will be forever altered.

    "When they (readers) read about harmony at the start of a story, it's a promise that discord is soon to come."

    Is that what @Link the Writer meant by a 'casual and peaceful start?' If so, it has a long pedigree.

    In reference to critique-givers jumping all over a 'slow start', Steven James has quite a bit to say. Basically "first page" critiques 'focus on a tiny glimpse of someone's writing taken out of context. ...These critiques are often being done by people who aren't aware of all the narrative forces that press in upon a story to reveal its true shape. ...Any writing taken out of context will end up being critiqued poorly."
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
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  13. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    @jannert - That's what I meant. It starts off as calm and peaceful, it looks like the main character(s) is/are having a good life until things start to unravel. Think of it like the calm before the storm. Thought I imagine there should be some hints that all is not well within the first few pages.
     
  14. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Well, the hint will be in the presence of all this calm. As Steven James says, the readers KNOW something is going to happen when they read this sort of beginning. Of course if they get to the end of the story and nothing has happened they will probably look you up and kill you, but as long as something does change for the worse in a timely fashion, I'd say you're fine with that kind of a start.

    I think it's worse to start with a lot of action and tension, and then have to backtrack to establish the scene. Orienting the reader, giving them what's 'normal' at the start of the story is not the only way to present a story, but it is definitely not wrong either. I think back over my favourite books, modern and otherwise, and I'd say MOST of them start this way.

    By the way, quiet and slow does NOT equal boring. Your setting and characters should be interesting. However, they don't have to be all over the place either.
     
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  15. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    This isn't really saying much at all. HOW long does that harmony last? HOW peaceful really is that harmony? Are there subtle implications? Are we talking Joe just laying in his hammock in the back yard counting clouds kind of harmony, or Joe laying in his hammock in the back yard while his asshole neighbor is working on a construction project with a bulldozer? Maybe the prose is just written really, really well.

    I need to see specific examples of successfull novels that start this way to determine what that means.

    Finally, and this is a point that is often missed, what a successful author can do and what a budding amateur novelist can do are two entirely different issues. I maintain that it is harder to keep the reader's interest with a 100% peaceful intro, unless you absolutely know what you are doing.

    I disagree about people's intros being taken out of context. There are far too many pieces of writing to be read in any given lifetime. If there's no reason to get past the first few paragraphs, you've failed. End of story. If you're a famous writer, and I know you're good for it, I'll be willing to keep going. But when you're a beginner, totally different story.
     
  16. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    I need to see examples. Right now I really think you're oversimplifying their efforts. Please give me an excerpt if possible.
     
  17. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Good point, 123456789. When does the harmony stop? Depending on what happens (Say warplanes fly overhead in a chase, or a gangster attacks his asshole neighbor), when should it happen so the readers don't lose interest?

    I'm reminded of the first chapter in Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, in which most of the chapter was manly about some average day in a average dude's life. Granted he did meet some wizards and talked with his wife about Harry, but how many people honestly read his part before skipping to the end of the chapter when Dumbledore and McGonagall finally showed up?

    Readers will know that the peace will soon end, otherwise there would be no story. But when does the peace end? How long should one drag out "Joe's Excellent, Peaceful, Not Chaotic Day" before the plot kicks in?
     
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  18. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say "oversimplifying" the author's efforts. When you look back to that chapter in your mind, what you remember is the description of average day that by the end of the chapter is turned upside down by wizards. I suggest you go back and take an actual look at the chapter.

    From CH1 of Harry Potter Sorcerer Stone by JK ROWLING

    "Mr. and Mrs. Dursley, of number four, Privet Drive, were proud to say
    that they were perfectly normal, thank you very much. They were the last
    people you'd expect to be involved in anything strange or mysterious,
    because they just didn't hold with such nonsense.

    Mr. Dursley was the director of a firm called Grunnings, which made
    drills. He was a big, beefy man with hardly any neck, although he did
    have a very large mustache. Mrs. Dursley was thin and blonde and had
    nearly twice the usual amount of neck, which came in very useful as she
    spent so much of her time craning over garden fences, spying on the
    neighbors. The Dursleys had a small son called Dudley and in their
    opinion there was no finer boy anywhere.

    The Dursleys had everything they wanted, but they also had a secret, and
    their greatest fear was that somebody would discover it"

    By the end of paragraph 1 we already know they are involved with something strange and mysterious, because the narrator takes the time to explain that you wouldn't expect it. This is a two sentence paragraph that directly promises something "strange and mysterious."

    P2, I'll give you, is a fairly harmonious paragraph, but the descriptions are far from bland. Mr. Dursely is a big beefy man with little neck,which gives me the image of a bull dog, which is not harmonious. His wife spies on their neighbors, also not harmonious. Even in this short, descriptive paragraph, Rowling has set up a little bit of tension by inferring unattractive traits in the two characters.

    So far, we've gone two paragraphs, then.

    P3. BAM. "The secret." So much for that harmony ...


    Moreover, while Rowling does fit a lot of my own criteria for "great writer," I have to admit she is a master at hooking the reader. She just knows how to do it. Starting this way might be very difficult for a beginner...
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
  19. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    So you're saying there's a way to start the story off with a bang without this:

    Chapter One
    <cue confusing, chaotic scene>

    Just the right words to fill in the air of mystery and suspense, even when it appears nothing out of the ordinary is happening on the pages, and the readers will be hooked?

    So for the Joe example, it could go like this:

    Chapter One
    (...)
    Joe heard his neighbor using the chainsaw on his tree. He stiffened, not because of the noise, but because Joe knew something about his neighbor. Something that had happened, in another city and time, that involved someone the neighbor held near and dear. Joe tolerated the neighbor well enough, but he could not rid himself of the nasty feeling in his stomach. If the neighbor found out, hell would break loose.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
  20. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    Is that applied to me?

    If we look at J.K Rowling's CH1, first 3 paragraphs. She states directly that there is a big secret. This is quite out of the ordinary.



    Look. What's the point of starting out with a general, run of the mill peaceful scene just to "establish character?" You can establish character and setting just fine with tension. Moreover, we all know what a peaceful, run of the mill day looks like. There's only so many ways you can describe it. Why waste the reader's time? Start with the actual story.
     
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  21. AsherianCommand

    AsherianCommand Active Member

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    Actually. I don't plan on copying GOT at all, only use elements from certain authors and mix it into something of my own creation.

    Think of it like this. People that worship their gods in Celtic Tradition. But they look like the Anglo Saxons. But have the Technology of the Later Crusades. I will not use a single time period as that doesn't really promote an imagination as much as a jumble of ideas and combing them into their own unique identity. 6th and 9th century are infintely interesting but this is a world where Elven like creatures and Dragons live. But the world building isn't really my top priority until the plot lines are completed.

    I originally had it start out with the Main character looking out the window and thinking. "Is it Really today? Am I really ready to come home?"

    I had planned where the villian would be introduced at the end of the chapter and subtle hints of something more going on. It is mostly to start jabbing into peoples minds something is wrong.

    This world I think would be darker than GOT in terms of. Human Sacrifice is a norm, Human suffering is pretty high. As the culture I have based the celtics. So there will be a lot of weird temples. As where in game of thrones they revere people at trees and temple like structures. But in this world there will be multitudes of different religions. I am thinking around four or five. I had originally had a list gods. But very few people have one god, most of the people in this world will have multiple gods. This may seem very familiar to GOT, but this was mainly by accident. I had no intent of doing that, as GOT usually follows along like a history book.



    Also on the agrument or debate above. I agree to a certain extent. There are certain things that can work. Like the beginning of one my stories is. "When did she die?", The Phantom of fire follows me. etc etc.

    It can work sometimes, but usually a great hook is usually just the main character and him setting up an uneasy setting.

    And agreed on the age part! I will probably be extremely busy when I am 40.
     
  22. benmetcalfe8

    benmetcalfe8 New Member

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    I personally began my most recent novel with several main characters interacting. In my case they are arguing over plans whilst I build their appearance in the mind of the reader.

    I hope it will bring them right into the action.
     
  23. AsherianCommand

    AsherianCommand Active Member

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    Yeah. I was planning on doing that, but I was planning on introducing the main character and his acts immediately after the fighting scene.

    But yeah currently I am in research moment.
     

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