1. Transylvanian Amnesiac

    Transylvanian Amnesiac Member

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    Humans, how do you flirt?

    Discussion in 'Research' started by Transylvanian Amnesiac, Jan 25, 2017.

    I saw a somewhat similar post to this in the Research forums but it didn’t exactly give me the answer that I am needing. I need some help with understanding the art of seduction. Yes, this is something that could be of use to me in my personal life because I have no clue (nor experience) how any of this works, but the intent and purpose of this question is for a character I'm writing, I swear (¬、¬)

    In my novel I have a male character who is looking to hook up with a woman at a club and I am drawing a blank as to how he could start a conversation with a stranger randomly that could lead this direction. Two friends approach the bar to order drinks and he has been sitting at the bar drinking for a while waiting to find someone that he considers to be attractive. One of the friends is flirtier than the other but he sets his sights on the more reserved one, which is no problem due to how charming of a guy he is. There is no subsequent relationship to be had with the female characters that he encounters; these particular women are just there to establish his role as a cad, albeit a charming and intelligent one. This character is considered conventionally attractive by most women and he has what is arguably the most respected career in his society (neurosurgeon), and although those things aren’t logical conversation starters they hypothetically should make things easier for him.
     
  2. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    How is he a cad? Flirting isn't caddish (cad-ish?) on its own.

    (Definition: Cad: "a man who behaves dishonorably, especially toward a woman.")

    That said, I think that flirting is about appreciation, rather than, "Hey. Interchangeable parts. Wanna?" A person is likely to be particularly charmed if the flirter appears to appreciate an aspect that is non-obvious and that the person embraces as part of their identity. So, noticing a woman's figure is utterly obvious. Noticing her vintage rhinestone brooch is far less obvious. And an air of delighted fascination, as if the other person is a wonderful discovery, is also useful.
     
  3. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    I think you should make your title more inclusive so that @matwoolf can also participate
     
  4. Francis de Aguilar

    Francis de Aguilar Contributor Contributor

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    Watch some movies.
     
  5. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Aunt? Supporter Contributor

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    Interlocking?

    Wait, not always.

    I guess interchangeable is right for those higher on Mt. Kinsey than I...
     
  6. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    How is that much better than picking up a woman at a bar?
    Rich handsome man with an impressive job, that barely gets turned down.
    Sounds like a Massive cliche. Or a gold diggers wet dream with a crust. :p

    Why not have him hire an Escort? It would safer and a sure thing,
    even though it is 'technically prostitution'.

    Though you want him to be a 'pick up artist', so run with that.
    So if he is just after some tail at a club, he could play his easy pass.
    He is rich, successful, and 'pretty', could land any clubrat he wants
    with little effort. Way to make a challenge for him, might as well
    just gift wrap the sex while your at it.

    Why doesn't do he the gentlemanly thing and ask her to join him for a
    drink and have a casual conversation with her? Alcohol is your
    only variable due to the parties tolerance to it, and how it affects
    their judgement. The odds either is a functional alcoholic are
    extremely low, so have fun with it.

    I know I am being harsh, but you have given nothing to really work with,
    beyond rich handsome and horny. Is there something that makes him
    interesting? Or is just the male equivalent of Mary-Sue as a playboy?

    I guess having him show interest by simply saying :
    "Hi, I am (name). Would you like to join me for a drink?" (or something like that)
    Not original, but it is a start. Then things will fall into place.
     
  7. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Flirting for me is about paying attention and taking an interest, even if I'm not really interested. We live in a world where no one listens; everyone is just waiting for their turn to talk. If I want to flirt with you, I listen to what you're saying and find elements of conversation that are clearly interesting to you and draw out those bits of conversation. I ask you questions that give you room to expound. I listen. Seriously. I shut my damned mouth and I listen. I'm waiting to hear other things you're going to say in order to move the questions in that direction once this train of conversation starts to exhaust itself. Eye contact. Not creepy, steady, unnatural eye contact, but eye contact that is appropriate for what's going on. There's no explaining that bit. You just have to know how.

    Knowing the correct angle that best highlights your features and how to look up at someone through long lashes doesn't hurt either. ;)

    When the two girls come up to the bar (assuming the atmosphere is one where conversations can be heard), have him interpose himself and agree with the reserved friend on some point that the two are talking about that he has overheard. The flirtier of the two girls doesn't see this as a pick-up because it's not directed at her, though it's spoken at her. She engages his contradiction. He's in the conversation. He works his way (conversation-wise) over to the more reserved of the two. Now apply my original advice.
     
  8. newjerseyrunner

    newjerseyrunner Contributor Contributor

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    Flirting with a woman you want a date with is different than flirting with a woman you just want to have a one night stand with. I'm assuming that you want the latter?

    For just a hookup, I usually just started with "can I get you a drink?" then small talked until I could get her to dance. Most of the time bars and clubs are way too loud to have a conversation in and most of the flirting is physical. Eye contact was important as Wreybies said, so is skin contact as long as you're not too forward too fast. Alcohol is also usually a pretty good lubricant.

    For groups of women, usually the easiest thing to do is identify the group leader. Usually the prettiest or most talkative one, (the one guys usually obviously go for,) and completely ignore her in favor of her friend. I picked up that trick from the movie A Beautiful Mind and am ashamed to say that I know it works quite well.

    Of course, I'm older now and flirt pretty much exclusively with my own wife, so I'm sure I'm out of practice.
     
  9. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    If you want him to be a pick up artist read The Game by Neil Strauss ... personally I don't have much time for 'techniques' but it will give you some insite into how the PUA community think.

    As newjersey says If he's good looking, charming, intelligent, and well paid he'll have no problem 'opening' with women - he could just make eye contact and smile and wait to see if thats returned, if it is he just strolls over and offers to buy her a drink - that used to work for me, and I have only one of the four attributes listed - the average club is too loud for witty repartee without shouting in her ear anyway.

    You might also want to look at come together by josie lloyd and emlyn rees - the Male Mc 'Jack' starts the book as pretty much the kind of guy you want your character to be
     
  10. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    That said I have a freind who insists on opening with "hey, I know you from somewhere don't I... wait your that actress arent you, the one off the..." snaps fingers distractedly and waits for her to fill in " he gets eyerolled and told to ' off creep' a fair bit , but he also has a success rate' higher than you'd think
     
  11. Transylvanian Amnesiac

    Transylvanian Amnesiac Member

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    I agree wholeheartedly with you on thinking that there needs to be an outward acknowledgement of something more subtle than one's physical appearance to gain their interest and attraction. My novel is told from multiple POVs so the internal thoughts of this character are shown to be far more shallow, but if one were to truly master "the game" as it were, there has to be a level of deception. All decorum goes out the window when the goal is achieved; using the person for their body is the sole purpose for this character, and I'd say that the objectification is what plays into the "cad" persona, especially when afterwards it is perfectly obvious that that's what it was all about. The minor female characters aren't necessarily there for the hook-up, and I want it to be like this because I think that it's more true-to-life if I just had it that the women are there to be with friends and enjoy themselves.

    I've played with the idea in my head about a compliment about a trinket or the clothes that the women are wearing, but I'm just skeptical about that leading to a natural conversation that progresses to sexual intimacy. That may just be my own inexperience making me doubt that. What's the follow-up though? He comments on her "rhinestone brooch" or what have you and maybe she says where she got it and I guess he could ask her more about that and it shows that he's invested... Does it have to be an eventual outright sexual proposition after this conversation? I doubt that if a guy likes a woman's trinket that that would make her invite him to her place or that she'd accept an invitation back to his...
     
  12. Transylvanian Amnesiac

    Transylvanian Amnesiac Member

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    Be as harsh as you want, I feel pretty socially awkward and socially handicapped for having to ask what should be a fairly simple question :D Although this character is far more nuanced than this description might indicate, when it comes to the sexual aspect of things he is most certainly a massive cliche. Would you be surprised to find out that this is a sci-fi and not some cheap EL James fan-fiction?

    I do not have a problem with the Mary Sue-playboy side of this character because I intend to subvert many cliches in my novel's plot by setting them up to a point and then turning them on their heads. Maybe that seems like a petty literary objective. I guess where I do not want to be cliche is by getting advice from pick-up artists or movies on how men meet women in a bar/club setting for sexual encounters, because I've always been skeptical about how these would actually work in real life. "Hi, I am (name). Would you like to join me for a drink?" "Sure." Drink gets poured and he purchases it. "Thanks for the drink (name). Bye".

    I think that it needs to be a with a woman who is not necessarily a club-rat, but just out for a good time with her friends because anything else doesn't offer the chase, and given his confidence any easy conquest wouldn't be pleasurable. I guess his egomania is just as important as his libido. In this moment the character is feeling inadequate in another part of his life so he is looking for sexual release because that is a realm where he always feels adequate. The problem is that I do not know how someone who feels sexually adequate and rightfully so would go about setting up a sexual encounter. I don't think that flashing your status outright would be enough to charm any woman, no matter how high-status you are. Bringing it up in natural conversation and playing it off could work as an added bonus to who he is as a person, and I have that later part of the conversation bringing this up outlined. It's mainly the icebreaker that I am struggling with.
     
  13. Transylvanian Amnesiac

    Transylvanian Amnesiac Member

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    I agree with you and I also really like your idea. I think I'm going to work with it. Thanks!
     
  14. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    @Transylvanian Amnesiac I can believe that it is Sci-fi. In fact I love Sci-fi. :supersmile:
    That is also good that it is not like that which I loathe with a passion.

    Look forward to getting to read some/whole of this piece sometime in the future. :supersmile:
     
  15. Historical Science

    Historical Science Contributor Contributor

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    I just make jokes and ask her questions about herself. If she's laughing then she's having a good time... right?
     
  16. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Aunt? Supporter Contributor

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    [​IMG]
     
  17. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    I'm not single, but if I was and looking to get laid I'd just hit up Tinder.
     
  18. Albeit

    Albeit Active Member

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    Humor and/or humour.

    They both work very well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2017
  19. ToBeInspired

    ToBeInspired Senior Member

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    I just wanted to mention that if he's quietly sitting at a bar for an extended period of time it can come off as melancholic and creepy to some. It's not a coffee shop to work on a novel, it's purpose is social interaction and/or libations.

    Successful flirting is a form of confidence and has much to do with attitude. Different approaches work on different people and no one has a perfect record. Failure and success are two sides of the same coin.

    For your scene, regardless of the dialogue, I would ask why the other finds the other interesting. It'll be a variety of factors ranging from appearance to compatibility. Some people have types. Some women love tall men, others tattoos. It all depends on your character.

    I think you should focus on your characters and think it over. Flirting really isn't that complicated. Money, looks, humor, and charm. Any of those will work.
     
  20. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Humans, how do you flirt?

    Shamelessly, and delightedly.

     
  21. WNP

    WNP Member

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    I always found it easier to pick up girls in bars rather than clubs, as it's too loud to talk in clubs.

    Also it's usually easier to a approach a group rather than a girl on her own, as they feel more comfortable and less defensive around their friends.

    Then just generally joke around with them, take an interest in what they're saying, and casually take the piss out of them every now and then in a way so that they're laughing with you and taking the piss back (commonly known as 'banter') etc. And go from there.

    I spent two spells in Malia (yeah yeah I know lol) when I was younger, and actually found using a little bit of magic was a great way to break the ice and get them talking. It sounds lame I know, but you'd be surprised how effective it can be, and atleast it wasn't as boring as most the guys that hit on them every night.
     
  22. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    'Take a card, take a card, pick any card, any card darling, you have wonderful eyes, baby.'

    Grotitia plucked a card from the weasel's fist. Yes, she was the queen of hearts, again, and her heart sank as he wrote his telephone number upon her card. She watched friends afar, dancing on the dancefloor, wondered how she might ever ditch this monster with his sparkle, his fucking laughter that burned like a urinary tract infection.

    [I thought about this thread a lot, and suppose I flirt constantly in some shape or form, not a conscious thing - searching for play, diamonds in dust (hew) - down the depths of hell where I work, for example. Suppose, the only place I hold back might be with a younger woman. I wouldn't want to project too creepy with my saliva, and my breath across a twenty-something woman whilst I'm ventilating, hairy at the wrists.

    'Heh, heh, have you lost weight, lovely? Oh yes you have, oh yes you have, you are so slender to my spectacles. Oh please, oh please me, Irene, and rub my feet, rub anything for god's sake, the cashiers don't smile at me these days, help me, Irene. Would you like a cup of tea?'
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2017
  23. Robert Musil

    Robert Musil Contributor Contributor

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    If you spent much time in the US in the 90s or 00s, you may be familiar with the "Big Dig", which was a notorious public works project in the city of Boston (I think it had to do with excavating a tunnel for a highway, or something--hence the "dig" part). It became a national scandal due to the fact that it took something like 4x as much money and time as originally planned.

    So yeah, flirting. It's like that.

    ETA: At least, if you're me.
     
  24. Transylvanian Amnesiac

    Transylvanian Amnesiac Member

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    Ah, you're right about a massive oversight I made in this setting of the scene. Thanks for bringing it up because I was able to change it and then use Wreybies' suggestion more convincingly.

    Despite my username, I am Canadian, so you'd think that my experiences would be similar :p Then again, I was born in '92 so most of the duration that you mentioned were my formative years, wherein I first established my self as a shamefully sensitive prepubescent whose feelings were exploited, and then developed into a shielded, angsty automaton in my adolescence. The latter identity has not fully been shed yet.

    Since I felt like putting this needless explanation here, I feel that I should point out and apologize to everyone for my inaccurate headline, which was a play on the headline of an earlier post by another user. I think that my headline might have led some people to think that I was asking a question tangential to what I was really asking. I appreciate everyone's advice so far though :)
     
  25. Iogairn

    Iogairn New Member

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    Not speaking from any level of expertise but I was actually told how I flirt the other day so I don't know if it helps.

    I try to make whoever I'm trying to chat up feel like the whole world's a joke and we're the only ones who can understand it. At parties/smoking areas that often starts with a group joke/friendly dispute that I try to pull others into, regardless of gender (I'm straight). Then, after there's been a bit of banter, I usually try to create a private joke with someone I have the best dialogue with. Slip a few casual innuendoes to show that sex isn't alien to you but nor is it all you think about (keep it witty).

    That could work if you've two friends in a bar, perhaps? Also gives you a chance to write more characters.
     

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