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  1. 33percent

    33percent Active Member

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    I don't know if this will be a problem on genre..

    Discussion in 'Genre Discussions' started by 33percent, Jun 7, 2018.

    I completed my rough draft of my book and doing editing on it. I don't know what section was best for this post. Today I was spoke with one of the writing counselors at the writing center. Anyways, we did discuss grammar, the hook, and converting the "telling" to "showing", etc. She mentioned I may have one challenge when sending my work to an Agent, is the genre.

    My genre is science fiction, but the first 4 chapters starts off in are in our era, and MC in the 5th chapter transitions to the science fiction era. Sorta, like Harry Potter transitioning to the wizard world. The first four chapters are not prologue because it's part of the main plot.

    The main problem she saw was, if a reader picked up my book in the science fiction genre section, realizing it was in our time they might be flustered. This might cause the Agent to reject, just because that reason. She suggested to leave "bread crumbs" relating to the science fiction transition. She did mention the first paragraph is critical and needed a hook(my thought of a hook was far different). Will this be a problem when sending my work to an Agent, regarding this genre issue? what do you folks suggest I do, when involving two different era's?
     
  2. CoyoteKing

    CoyoteKing Good Boi Contributor

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    I'm firmly in the "if it's a compelling story, don't worry about it" camp.

    She has a point, though. When people pick up a science fiction novel, it's generally because they want to read science fiction. They might be put off by four entire chapters of contemporary fiction.

    I picked up my first Harry Potter book and checked. Yep, you are correct. The first four chapters start out with Harry in the normal/contemporary world. He meets Hagrid in the fourth chapter, and then in the fifth chapter, Hagrid takes him away. It's sixty pages (which honestly blows my mind; I didn't realize the opening took so long).

    The thing is, though, in Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, it's immediately obvious that something magical is going on and Harry is some kind of magic chosen one from a different world. From the very first chapter.

    So my question is:

    1) Why do you have four entire chapters before you get to the science fiction part?
    2) What happens in those four chapters?
     
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  3. 33percent

    33percent Active Member

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    1. During the four chapters, I do point out the obvious gift the MC has in the first chapter. Showing "breadcrumbs" something is strange is going on internally with him. He can't explain the strange moments but ignorant of it. Also including the struggles of his everyday life.

    2. Sets up the theme or overall moral of the story for the entire book of past events. Each Chapter is a building point to the transition of two different worlds. Basically, the MC is trying to escape from his problems in life. Still dealing with the loss of his brother and love interest for a girl.
     
  4. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I agree with @CoyoteKing that if it works, it works. A compelling story can trump just about anything. But, personally, I don't think I would get through four chapters of waiting for the science fiction to start. In my experience, when agents and publishers request to see your book they usually start by asking for the first two or three chapters. Is your story, particularly the beginning, so compelling that they're going to trust you that the science fiction is coming? I'm not sure "breadcrumbs" are going to be enough.

    You say your MC knows something strange is going on, but can't explain it. Can or do you explain it to the readers? Still, I'm not sure a strange feeling is enough to justify four chapters. And daily life struggles... Can't you sprinkle that through the story when things finally get going?

    I don't think you need to set up a moral of the story. Is this a children's book? Why do you have a moral of the story? You also mention setting up readers with the theme. I wouldn't stick something like that at the beginning. A theme is something that should come gradually throughout the story and it's not even something they should even need to pick up on to enjoy the story, in my opinion. Also in my opinion, I don't think it's really a good idea for writers to focus on theme. Tell a story and let any themes come naturally. But, really, I don't think you need or want these things at the beginning.

    I had a short story that I thought needed my so-called setup which in some ways sounds similar to what you've done. And I thought those first few pages were smart and witty and important to the story. I thought it was one of my better stories, though, it was being rejected from everywhere. So, I really thought about how I might not be starting in the right spot or the right way. I completely cut and rewrote about the first half of the story. No more internal monologue and struggle, no more details or "breadcrumbs" I thought reader would need later, no more setup. I started with story. And the next place I sent my story bought it for more than I've ever made selling any piece of writing. And I sold it to a dream publication. I do believe that there is no way I would have sold my story had I not really reworked the beginning and started the whole thing differently.

    I know how hard it is to cut good writing. Just the idea of having to do almost anything over again is exhausting. But I don't think you would have posted this unless you were unsure about those first four chapters and if it was the right way to start your novel. Sure, it's easier just to be done and start sending it out, but I don't think you're giving yourself or your work the best chance based on what you've told us. Of course, it's your choice what to do. I suggest at least giving it some more thought.
     
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  5. 33percent

    33percent Active Member

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    I haven't even sent it to a publisher yet, so I'll give my four chapters a chance. I mean a moral of the story like any author with their book has a message hidden in plain site. My friend said it best, it has the same setup as futurama or john carter, even though it has nothing to do with their storylines. Just same set up as a launch pad of being in our or past era, then 360 turn around event that propels them in the future. There is one chapter I could nix, but adds more foundation to the theme of the overall book. The 2nd chapter isn't really needed but adds more to the foundation of the book once they get past the 4th chapter. I am in the process of converting alot of "telling" into showing in my book. End of the day, the book needs to sell and if Agents/Publishers are not buying it. I'll go back to the drawing board.
     
  6. TWErvin2

    TWErvin2 Contributor Contributor

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    Many agents (and publishers) desire a synopsis along with a first chapter (or three). Many agents only want a query letter, and if they are intrigued, they request the full manuscript. Agents and editors in the genre are very well-read within that genre, and will not be put off by a story that starts outside of the "SF realm."

    An option, if you feel strongly, is to decide if you're starting in the right place. If the SF element is the main story, even if the first 4 chapters are solid storytelling, how much of their content is necessary?
     
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  7. Malisky

    Malisky Malkatorean Contributor

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    Recalculating...
    How long are your chapters? If they are very long and focus too much upon unrelatable themes to the sci-fi genre, maybe your counselor is right. Either make them somewhat relatable (come up with some sort of crumbs), or crop them up a tad. On the other hand, if you are content with your outcome and your gut feeling says "this is it", then send it as it is. Maybe you'll succeed, maybe not, but even if you don't get published on first take, if your work is good (and they are reasonable enough and you're co operative enough) I think that they will send you feedback on what brushed them the wrong way and you will have the opportunity to change it and send it for re-evaluation. Making "mistakes" upon writing is nothing new to them and it's not considered a mortal sin that can't be dealt with. They just want to sell.
     
  8. 33percent

    33percent Active Member

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    To be honest it's really how I started writing my story. I passed out in the computer lab, dreamed waking up in some futuristic effed up place and started writing a short story experiencing it. The next thing I know 7 years later it turned into a novel. The actions that do happen in the pre-sci fi part carry over to the Sci Relm part of the MC character development. Just in four chapters alot of stuff does happen that show MC struggles, little backstory, and the goal they're trying to achieve. I am aiming for the reader to relate to the MC on the same level in our era before they enter the sci realm.

    Total words so far 13,350 and 47 pages, all doubled spaced with 12 size font. Well, we didn't even get past the first chapter yet, it was only an hour just discussing what I need to like changing stuff from telling to showing. We got hung up on a misinterpreted quote from the editor I am hiring. She just merely suggested this might turn off agents. Basically, telling me I need to focus on is convincing the "gatekeepers" this is going to be Sci-Fi just with an unorthodox approached tot it. It's kinda like the show "Chopped" you cook some bs meal, only to watch the judge falling in love with it or throwing it in the trash. I figured since I haven't sent my work to the publishers yet, how can I know? what I can do in my control, polish up the first 5 chapters, professionally edit them and send them the agents to test the waters. I am novice writer and still sensitive about my grammar, but I am passionate about my story which pushes me to finish it. My new years goal is at least send it to an agent or publisher this year, that's my goal.
     
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  9. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Could you bring one of the later chapters forward as a prologue, whether declared or not, so you open with your protag fighting space octopi in the 25th century , or whatever, then just as he's about to get a tentacle up the ass you cut back to '90 days earlier'
     
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  10. 33percent

    33percent Active Member

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    You did just give me an idea for a prologue. There is one sci-fi prologue I can do as an appetizer before the main meal. It can relate to the prior opening scene of Chapter 5. That's the chapter when the main character that enters in the Sci-Fi realm. They can read the prologue and read chapter 1-4 which are set in our era. So the reader, can skip the prologue all together if they wish and still carry on with the story as if the prologue ain't there
     
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  11. DeeDee

    DeeDee Contributor Contributor

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    The reader will most probably first read the blurb and will have some idea what the book is about. Not many people just pick a random book without having any idea what it's about. An agent will have the query where it should explain how the character starts in our world then transitions into the sci-fi world: "Mary had a little lamb which turned into a dragon and flew Mary to Fantasyland." If your query is "Mary has lots of adventures in Fantasyland" then that's a query which doesn't represent your book well. Of course, whatever chapters you put in the book will have to be interesting to read. A lot of books "start slow" and don't become particularly exciting for the first 60, or even 100 pages. But that doesn't mean those 60 or 100 pages can be torn off because they are useless. Those pages should be just as interesting. One of Stephen King's recent books (Revival) is about a man looking for odd jobs, for the most part. And a bit of his childhood. That's not what the book is really about. And it's a really scary book. It's Lovecraftian, horror and will give you nightmares after you finish it. But it can also be boiled down to really mundane events, with no horror at all, except for the last ten pages or so. Only when you read the book those events don't sound mundane at all. It seems slow, if you only take into account that it's made of mundane events. But it's impossible to put down because the way the story is told is soooo engaging. That's what you should be going for. Keep your reader interested.
     
  12. 33percent

    33percent Active Member

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    I discussed this with my writing counselor on different strategies I could do. I keep it as is having 4 chapters based in our time like Harry Potter strategy OR take the 4 chapters spread it out through the novel as memories between when MC in a holding cell. She reviewed the chapter said there wasn't much conflict right away. She used Hunger games for an example that MC sister was called upon to be in the games and showed the conflict right away. I could use the 3rd chapter where the catastrophic event that propels the MC into the Sci Realm giving the reader the nitty gritty of it right away.
     
  13. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    As @big soft moose suggested, this might be exactly the place for a prologue. Something perhaps, that shows what your main character is going to encounter when he enters the sci-fi 'world.' Or something along those lines.

    The main use of a prologue is to show the reader an incident, event, or fact they need to know BEFORE they start reading the main part of the story. It's a chance to launch the story in the direction you want it to go. You don't want your readers assuming the story is taking place in the present day, so a prologue can ensure they don't get that impression.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018

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