1. JaysonR

    JaysonR New Member

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    I don't know what I want to say...

    Discussion in 'General Writing' started by JaysonR, May 18, 2020.

    I'm new here.

    So I'm stuck.
    I've been researching this for quite a while and haven't found anything useful.

    I have a problem. It's not form, plot development, dialogue, or any such elements.

    It's that I don't know what I want to say.

    All the completed work I have done over the decades has been for other people who gave me the idea, or gave me their draft to rewrite or doctor.

    If I have that, even if it's a simple and single idea with no other material, I'm fine, but I want to work on my own material.
    Yet, I never could get anything going anywhere. It always foundered; I would lose touch with it quickly.

    Recently I realized this was because I had nothing that I was trying to say; no central message to anchor to.

    It doesn't have to be grand, but it should be there.

    However, when I sit back, or walk around, and meditate upon things I would like to talk about...I come up absolutely empty.

    I can write endlessly in rebuttle and in analysis, but being the protagonist of thought myself...that seems to be my illiteracy.

    How does one provoke oneself into a realization of message?

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
  2. Oxymaroon

    Oxymaroon Contributor Contributor

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    The snappy answer is: Don't write - cultivate herbs or repair watches.
    The thoughtful answer might run several pages.
    Here's a starting point:
    Do you not care about anything? Y / N
     
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  3. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I'm way too tired to write anything here that makes senss, but this link should help:

    The Fuel of Creative Writing: Ideas

    Follow the links in the article, each takes you to an equally extensive page, also loaded with links.
     
  4. Oxymaroon

    Oxymaroon Contributor Contributor

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    Yea, that ought to keep Jayson occupied for a while!
    I can just about envision a blissful world in which people with nothing to say keep off the airwaves and keyboards.
    I have a feeling that's not really the case here. JaysonR probably has stories to tell and weighty matters to get off his chest, but lacks the confidence to use his own voice.
     
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  5. JaysonR

    JaysonR New Member

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    Thank you for the replies.

    As I'm learning about myself through this...apparently not?

    Not really.

    Mostly my disposition is that it doesn't really matter, and I don't ultimately car about much beyond my immediate control.

    I have opinions. When people start discussion on the classic topics, I have involved responses. However, they are all rather mechanical as I don't actually care about the topics and I am simply responding mostly by logic.

    I suppose a different way to phrase my question would be: how does one become passionate about ideas?

    Fair enough. The only reason I write is that I enjoy the physical and mental act of writing.

    I suppose I could just keep writing for others, but I'm quite interested in doing my own material for once.

    I read through it looking for topics on my issue, and didn't see much.
    There was a little bit, but it quickly turned into what I usually see, which is a discussion on themes or curating ideas.

    There doesn't seem to be much on finding what your internal message is, and how to be excited by it.

    I think the issue is that creative writers probably have no shortage of things they want to say and write about, as all of the writing help I've seen tends to be based around tempering a typical interest of the writer to throw everything they have at the story.

    So this loops back to what Oxymaroon wrote, "Don't write".

    It would seem there isn't much on this, and that all I can really do for now is to continue not to write my own material.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
  6. Vandor76

    Vandor76 Senior Member

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    Start with thinking about some books/movies you read or watched and try to understand the message of those. You will soon realize that many of them have the same message/morale packed into very different stories.
    There are also "lighter" books that do not want to broadcast any message.

    If the problem is that you lose interest too soon, try writing short stories and go for longer ones gradually.
     
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  7. Hammer

    Hammer Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Hi @JaysonR, and welcome to the forum.

    Think of a diamond. It doesn't come out of the ground as a sparkly gem ready to grace a princess's tiara, it is a dull lump of rock that could easily have ended up as humble graphite and been suitable for filling a pencil. It is only when it is polished and cut that it becomes a thing of beauty.

    "All the completed work I have done over the decades has been for other people who gave me the idea, or gave me their draft to rewrite or doctor." - here's the thing right here; you like re-writing and doctoring - it may be that you are not cut out for a writer, but to find out you need to press on even when you are not happy with your work. You need to subject your graphite to heat and pressure, turn it first into a grubby rock, and then come back to cut and polish it.

    There may be writers who put pen to paper, build wonderful worlds and craft amazing stories straight out of the box, but I will wager that there are a lot more who write a pile of crap and then edit it into shape (c:
     
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  8. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I'd say find an interesting story (combination of characters and events and setting) that YOU want to tell ...but don't worry about some deep meaning. Just tell the story, even if it seems trivial or superficial. As the story develops, so will the meaning.

    If you start out hammering home some lofty theme, chances are the writing will simply become a vehicle for that theme ...and your detachment from the emotional content of story itself will show. If you want to write philosophy, that's fine. But if you're writing a novel, short story or play, the trick is to get your readers to figure out the 'theme' for themselves—which isn't likely to happen till they've reached the end.

    Come up with a setting and characters who interest YOU, put them in situations that test their mettle, write till you find out where the combination of character and event is going to lead. After you've reached 'the end,' you will have found your theme. Then, during the many edits you'll go through before publication (yes, you will) you can insert events or insights that bolster your theme—without whacking readers over the head with it.
     
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  9. Oxymaroon

    Oxymaroon Contributor Contributor

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    [Do you not care about anything?)
    Then you truly have nothing to say.
    The thing about writing/reading : it's a collaborative undertaking.
    The reader is required to make an investment of time and effort.
    The writer must provide something worth the reader's investment.
    And you have nothing to offer.
    So, just write for your own amusement.
     
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  10. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    You have to spend time with you imagination, and
    make genre and story choices of your own volition.
    It isn't always easy to make those tough choices, but
    you will get there. :)
    Perhaps coming up with short story or Flash-Fic prompts
    on your own to get the creative juices flowing from yourself,
    so you don't have to rely on outside influences to get your
    writing flow going. It seems you put too much pressure on
    yourself, but you don't need to. Give yourself time to get in
    touch with your imagination, and try and let those musings
    out. :)
    Good luck.
     
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  11. Aceldama

    Aceldama free servant Contributor

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    I think it's just a matter of getting to know yourself. Being honest with who you are and what moves you.
     
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  12. TheOtherPromise

    TheOtherPromise Senior Member

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    I'm just starting out on this whole writing thing, so I can't say if this is exactly good advice.

    But how I usually find inspiration is by analyzing works of fiction. Especially if it's something that I overall liked, but one aspect of it just fell flat. Then I'll do a kind of mental rewrite of it. How would I have handled that scene differently. Why do I not like so-and-so's character arc, and how would I have preferred it to end. Then I'll focus in on that change that I'd have made, and analyze the underlying reasons behind it. Distill it from all of the context of the work (cause I don't want to write fanfiction) until it's just a pure idea. Then craft a unique story around it.

    I mention this because it sounds like you can work just fine when first inspired by something else, and I think that is a completely valid way to handle things.

    If you want to find your passion, then just analyze what you like and why you like it. That's a good place to start. Self introspection is a good skill for an aspiring writer (at least I think so).
     
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  13. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    The brainstorming method (that I linked above) really is a very good way to discover raw ideas and then you refine them. But you have to actually do it, not just say "Oh yeah, I've heard of that before" and pass on.

    The important thing is to switch from just thinking in your head to writing, even if it's just loose unstructured freewriting. In fact that's a very good way to start the flow of ideas. Until you put thoughts into words, in sentence form, and string several of them together, your ideas are crude and unfocused. Conscious thought in fact depends on focus and structure—without it all you have is vague fleeting intuitions. This is why you find it so much easier to refute or develop already existing ideas, because they're already refined in sentence form, so the conscious mind can grab onto them and work with them.

    I've found the best ways to do that is through dialogue or writing. Either one engages the dialectic process, though talking with people can easily lead you astray, they might take the discussion away from what you want. But a discussion might hold the seed of a thought that needs to be nurtured and cultivated further in your mind.

    The problem people usually have when they complain of not having any ideas is they don't know how to develop them through that early raw period. Here's a better explanation of the Freewriting process I mentioned:

    Creative Thinking versus Criticism

    Along with brainstorming, it helps shake the seeds of ideas out and you can also play around with tentative development at the same time. Just be sure to separate out the critical faculties at this stage (that's the point of both freewriting and brainstorming). After getting a lot of stuff down comes the time to select and edit. Don't engage the destructive part of the brain (the critic) in the early stage.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
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  14. JaysonR

    JaysonR New Member

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    Thank you all for the great responses; I have taken all of the advice in to take with me going forward.

    I wanted to highlight this one.
    Thank you @TheOtherPromise. All the other advice is good, and I can feel their worth, but yours is something I can connect with and its workflow is something I can wrap my conceptual mind around.

    As an incredibly analytically minded person, I can really relate to this approach.

    I think this never occurred to me because I don't typically like what I'm working on from others (save for one comedy spoof script I did for someone back around 2000). I like the parts and I can see where to go and better create connected symmetry, but they're nothing I would have cared to originate. I never thought to do the same to material I actually like, as strange as that sounds.

    I really can understand the action of deconstruction and critical analysis, and I think it's a genius suggestion to turn it into an idea harvester by contrast analysis of the motivation for the change.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  15. JLT

    JLT Contributor Contributor

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    If you don't know what you want to say, perhaps it's a problem with focus. Try this: invent a few characters and find out what they want to say. Base them on people you know, and try to make their reactions true to themselves.

    Those characters are already inside you. It's a question of shutting up and letting them speak for themselves.
     
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  16. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    I have personal experience that relates to what you mean. I'm not great writer by any stretch and I have finished so little, but I used to try to write poetry. I would write in rhyme, and I could never come up with anything but garbage. Then I switched to free verse (and it wasn't a question of free verse being easier, it was a question of free verse being a more spontaneous medium in which I could actually express what I wanted to say), and I found that I could actually write poetry that I liked.
    Anyway, what do you really want to say, and what is the best form for expressing it? Maybe a novel is too great a scope for your intimate sketches of working-class life (to take a random example), and short story form would suit them better. Maybe you feel that you must write high fantasy because that is what you have always read, but in reality you have a novel inside of you about the struggles of a poor farm boy trying to make his way in the modern world.
    I am a great believer in the idea that, to a certain extent, people have art inside of them that will/must come out if they give enough time to its pursuit and cultivation.
     
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  17. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I can totally relate to this. The format or the situation in which you write makes all the difference. I was just looking through some old blog posts from many years ago (not my blog here) and it made me realize that I wrote totally differently then (or is it there?) than I do now/here. I'm not completely sure why, but it seems to me it's got to do mostly with the fact that here I'm implanted into this message board, part of a society with its own rules and there's a certain need to observe a level of PC, or call it social decorum or what have you, that doesn't exist when you're writing on your own blog and can write how you want about what you want. Even on my blog here it's nested inside this larger forum and I feel somewhat stifled by that fact. Not only that, but also there's a need to be relevant to the discussion here, and on my blog I tended to follow only the twists and turns of my mind, to follow where it led, which you can't do in a forum like this. I mean, you CAN, but you'll get the mod hat action. There may be more to it as well, for one I was constantly reading exciting and inspirational things then and I don't seek those out these days like I used to. Maybe it's time to get back to that? I don't mean to leave this forum, but to also do something like what I was doing then.
     
  18. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    The social contract of joining a writer's forum, with all that the word "writer" implies.
     
  19. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I also find when I'm part of a message board, especially a fascinating one like this is, I can get drawn in and become to some extent a different person. It seems to reshape me, like water going into a new container. Another factor that I'm very aware of is that I'm learning so much about writing now, and much of it is about structure and rules and proper grammar etc. It seems to me when you're learning that kind of stuff you're in a certain mode of thought. When I would write really exciting stuff (or draw for that matter) it was generally when I was done with learning (for the time being) and hadn't been involved in it for a good long time. Out of student mode (and structured mode) and free to experiment and play. I don't plan to be done with this particular learning mode for a while now, I'm in the middle of picking up some really excellent stuff. But when it's done, I look forward to spreading my wings again.

    I know this only relates loosely to the original questions/purpose for this thread, but loosely can be important, and can often get you there in unexpected ways. I've definitely discovered the power of thinking around a problem—what Jung called circumnavigation, which defines the peripheries of it and can provide deep insight.
     
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  20. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Sometimes simple approaches can get you what you want/need.

    I'ts often been said: Write the book you would want to read.

    So ...if you could go to a free library right now, and pick up any kind of book you want, to take home and read ...

    What section of the library would you go to first?

    What kind of title or book cover or subject matter would draw your interest?

    What would induce you to take that book home?

    ....then write that book. :)

    It may sound simple, but that approach worked for me. I'm a sucker for well-researched historical fiction—especially set in the 19th century—that is character-driven with lots of emotional content, and with central dilemmas that are difficult or impossible to 'solve,' and still have resonance today. I enjoy watching characters learn to cope.

    That's the kind of novel I wrote.
     
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  21. A.S.Ford

    A.S.Ford Active Member

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    Correct me if this is inaccurate, but it seems like you're problem is that you want to write something with an internal message but do not have one in mind. If this is the case then let me share with you some advice I have been taught, and have learnt myself, over the past few years.

    Stories don't always need a message. Most of my stories were not written with a message in mind just a bunch of characters or story lines that demanded to be put onto paper. In truth, most stories reveal their messages while we write them. For example, my current novel-in-progress is two girls trying to find their families and safety in the aftermath of an exaggerated version of the Black Death plague in 1351. I did not start this novel with any message in mind and yet I can see themes and messages emerging while I am tackling the editing process.

    Therefore, what I would suggest is, if you have an idea for a story or even just for a character, get writing without worrying about the internal message and it should come through on its own :)
     
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  22. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    This is absolutely true. Themes or messages emerge naturally through the writing process. So much works that way in fact. The main thing is to just get started, whatever that means to you. You don't have to start writing at the beginning of the story, just write whatever occurs to you, whatever grabs your attention.
     
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  23. Que

    Que Active Member

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    JaysonR,

    Here's a few quotes to help you step over the Writers Block stumbling block:

    Write because you have something to say, not because you want to say something. [F. Scott Fitzgerald]

    If you wait for inspiration, you are a waiter, not a writer. [Dan Poynter]

    Writing is like riding a bicycle. You don't have to wait until you're an expert to begin doing it. [anon]

    My doctor told me he could cure my writers block but the side effect would be plagiarism! [Que]

    Don't look for something outside yourself to write about. Look inside yourself, because you won't know what you think or feel until you see what you say.

    A good place to trigger things inside yourself is to read my Things that Matter essays. Download them for free at... http://www.blogs-by-bill.com/downloads/downloads.html
     

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