1. Geronimo4x

    Geronimo4x New Member

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    I have a First/Third Person question.

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by Geronimo4x, Mar 28, 2017.

    Hello there :)

    I'm writing my book in first person but I'm confused on what to do because i will have some chapters where i switch worlds. For example my MC will be in the real world but then i will also be following a group of people in the fantasy world. My question is when i go to the fantasy world can i switch to third person? Eventually all my characters will meet and when that happens it will go back to my MC viewpoint. But until then is it ok to switch from first to third when in the other world?

    Any advice on this will help!
     
  2. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    As long as it's clear what you're doing, this should work. I've read books that used this system.
     
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  3. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Yes you can. It's a bit tricky but it's doable. Stephen King did it in Christine where the character of Dennis was in first person and everyone else (namely the other MC, Arnie) was in third. I believe he broke the book into large sections dedicated to each and didn't bounce between them too quickly or often. Other writers have done it before but nothing else is coming to mind. The tricky part is making sure that your first person POV stays razor sharp and doesn't glean any information revealed by your 3rd persons (3rd people?) unless he/she is directly exposed to it. This would include any omniscient things that bleed from the 3rd person POV. The cool thing about that is you can cue the reader into all sorts of things with the 3rd that your first person MC can't know, which is the drawback of strict first person. Dramatic irony essentially becomes impossible, which is why I would never in a billion years am am hesitant to use first person. But doing it your way can really back your first person MC into a narrative corner vis a vis the reader in a good way.

    Just curious, but why do you want to do the 1st/3rd split?
     
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  4. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    You can do this, but why not just use third person for your MC as well? If you just greatly prefer writing in first person, OK, it's not my job to tell you what you should like. But if the issue is about you wanting to be in the character's mind with full access to their thoughts--you can absolutely do that in third person, just as much as first person.
     
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  5. Geronimo4x

    Geronimo4x New Member

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    I want to do the split because all i hear is how limiting first person is and if i do my other world in third person (since that world will have more characters anyway) It will give readers the "best of both worlds" pun not intended lol. On the other hand i could pick another MC in the fantasy world and make them first person and i feel like if i did that then when they all meet it will confuse the readers. So pretty much i feel like thats (1st and 3rd) the only logical way to do my two world book.
     
  6. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Sounds good to me. Let her rip!
     
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  7. Geronimo4x

    Geronimo4x New Member

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    I was thinking this too but with my story i feel like having my MC in first person will make it more intimate between my MC and readers. Maybe i haven't written enough in third person but i like detail and like how my MC can tell the story through her eyes as she sees it. I feel like third person is to distant and "plain/monotone.".

    All in all my MC is pretty much the center of the story a lot of things has to deal with her actions and decisions so why not write it from her POV. Also correct me if you think differently but to give you an idea of my book im going to have two worlds, real world and the fantasy world separated by a vale and this vale will start to break down. So eventually fantasy creatures will start to fall through onto the real world. I feel like with this kind of book it might be overwhelming to write in third person and give all these different emotions of how people/society would feel if this actually happened in our world. I feel like if i do first person and show just her view on whats happening and how she sees peoples reactions it will make the story able to focus on the actual story itself. Does that make any sense at all lol? This is my first book so i'm kind of all over the place on my thoughts.
     
  8. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    3rd person intimate is basically the same thing as first person except the "I' pronouns are swapped out for "he/she." The reader is directly in the MC's head reading their thoughts. The only difference is the pronouns. Someone on this forum gave a great breakdown once of the different 3rd person perspectives with example sentences. I think it was either @ChickenFreak or @BayView but I could be wrong.
     
  9. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    First person and close third person limited are really just a difference of grammar.

    Close third person limited would be from her POV as well.

    The above clarifies the confusion. You are, I believe, assuming that third person is always omniscient. It's definitely not. Close third person limited is almost exactly the same as first person; it's just a grammar switch.

    For example, if I take your "three sentences" and convert them to third person, I really don't change their structure in any way. I'm running over to that thread to do that. (Done: https://www.writingforums.org/threads/share-your-first-three-sentences.145670/page-70#post-1542859)

    Again, I'm not saying that first person is wrong. I just sensed that you might not be fully aware of the possibilities of close third person limited.
     
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  10. Geronimo4x

    Geronimo4x New Member

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    @ChickenFreak Lets say i switched and did close third person limited with my MC viewpoint. What happens when i switch to the other world and cant see from my MC eyes. Should i pick another MC over there and try from his eyes or just voom out and do it from no ones perspective? Not sure what i would do there and then when they all meet.
     
  11. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    You could choose another viewpoint character, or you could go third person omniscient, which I think was your original plan for the other world?
     
  12. NoGoodNobu

    NoGoodNobu Contributor Contributor

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    My favourite children's novels is the Bartimaeous Series (it was a trilogy until a prequel came out, and I've been calling it a tetralogy till just this moment) by Jonathan Stroud

    Sticking just to the first book of Amulet of Samarkand from memory, the narration switches between first person of the the titular character of the series, Bartimaeous, to close/mid-distant third person (it's somewhat omniscient I think in the mid-distance bits, although is strictly limited when transitions into close third) for Nathaniel

    I like the two narrative POV styles, and how the contrast does offer significant differing perspectives (obviously, but still) on the proceedings of events.

    It's worth checking out, if you aren't put off by the age & genre (I'd call it Alternative History Urban Fantasy probably, but I've never bothered to look up its classification actually—and while it's a British children's book, it's better than most American Young Adult writings in my personal opinion). I think it does & utilizes the transitions exquisitely & impeccably.

    And while I completely respect ChickenFreak's knowledge & general know-how (she gives great advice, really, all across the board) I would like to kindly but still respectfully dissent in the respect that third person can fully stand-in for first person, at least in ever instance.

    Most first person narratives I grant can be changed to close third limited with little to no consequences.

    But there are some first person narratives that rely being totally engrossed in the worldview & expressions of the perspective character. For instance, Bartimaeous' of the earlier example is too sarcastic/satirical, attempts to come across poetic and pretends to be utterly cynical, all of which bleeds into every aspect of how his narration's presented and how the other characters, actions, and events are consequently interpreted & understood.

    While close third person can delve as deep into the psyche as first person can, it can not maintain that depth indefinitely. At least as far as I know, I have never experienced a close third that is solely made up of free indirect discourse the entirety of the narration. But even that granted, while the perspective character's thoughts colour the narration, I've always felt even in free indirect discourse passages a slight separated & less personal presentation than what one experiences in first person.

    So I do hold there are some (albeit rare) instances of first person not being equal to or interchangeable with close third, usually only because of the novelty, strength, & saturation of the perspective character's individual voice.

    Again, this is a rare case & I more often than not actually actively dislike the prevalent use of first person narratives. It seems most often simply a convenience or mere force of habit than a real active choice as a tool to best present the story.
     
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  13. Sigma Zed

    Sigma Zed Active Member

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    It's difficult but doable. It could go bad very easily if you don't maintain consistency between the worlds. However, it could be very interesting and expand your world further than a singular perspective could. Since you plan to do something along the lines of a fantasy world, the switched perspective could allow for an omnipresence feel of an all seeing, all knowing being. In my opinion, it would be wise to have a good reason to change the perspectives to keep from confusing the reader. Maintaining clarity here is the biggest challenge!

    Good luck!
     
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