I love writing but others don't love my writing

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by msmith, Dec 4, 2013.

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  1. Fitzroy Zeph

    Fitzroy Zeph Contributor Contributor

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    The notion of "true to their style" is without a doubt, to use a time worn expression, a double edge sword. All of us, have within ourselves, a vast array of likes and dislikes, prejudices, but most importantly, a capacity for change. Sometimes change happens naturally and sometimes its forced upon us. Whatever the circumstances -- we adapt. I personally think it is more than okay to desire to write in a fashion that many people find compelling and would some day, seek out to read. Somewhere on the continuum of genres and styles of writing, lies a point that is both enjoyable and worthy of my time, plus, is commercially viable. I believe there is such a point for most of us, if we choose to look at all of the possible meanings of the true to ones own style aphorism. If all you want to do is be a very competent dabbler, it doesn't much matter, but if eating and paying your rent is on the agenda, then there is a different set of rules to abide by.

    Some luck proverbs and sayings,

    "Luck sometimes visits a fool, but it never sits down with him." - German Proverb.
    "Every dog has his day in luck." - Japanese Proverb.
    "Men of action are favored by the Goddess of luck." - George S. Clason
    "I believe in luck: how else can you explain the success of those you dislike?" - Jean Cocteau
    "Luck is not something you can mention in the presence of self-made men." - E.B. White

    and my all time favorite,

    "I believe in luck. The harder I work the luckier I get." - Sam Shoen
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2013
  2. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    where did you find a link to his website, liz?
     
  3. chicagoliz

    chicagoliz Contributor Contributor

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    It wasn't a link -- he mentioned it in one of his responses. It was [link removed]
     
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  4. Garball

    Garball Banned Contributor

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    The whole stick to your guns argument can also lead you straight to skid row. As a chef, I like to think of myself as an artist and a business man. I have a style that I like and a certain type of food I prefer. I could open a restaurant of my own and only cook what I like to eat. I could then expect to close my doors when the bank loan runs out.
    So, what do you do? Take a step back and look at what your real goal is. My ultimate goal is to provide enjoyable dining experiences to my guests, even if I land a job cooking chicken fried steaks. I can guarantee I will try to make the best tasting CFS this side of the Mississippi, and yes, my style will be evident in the preparation but not so much so that my demographic will not buy my product.
    I guess my roundabout a point is that style falls beneath goal on the ladder of importance. You can have very unique and interesting style, but your end product can suck.
    If you are trying to make point or convey a message, it needs to be clear. Your style makes it yours.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2013
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  5. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    I took a look. Sorry, @msmith, but I'm having a hard time seeing a style in your stories. Can you explain what you are doing there? It doesn't ring of something free flowing that might make all the incomplete sentences work.
     
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  6. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    To the OP:

    I take your educational credentials at face value; thus, I give you credit for knowing about that which you speak. Your posts herein show you've a proper grasp of conventional syntax and punctuation, so the argument of one must learn to walk before one can run is a bit out of place. You can clearly walk.

    Perhaps it is simply a matter of honing the peculiarities that are currently earning you what you feel as derision when your work is considered by others. As a reader, I am very willing to slow my pace and read in a different way when a writer writes in a different way. It's been a matter of conversation as of late in other areas of the forum. And I agree there is an art to it, in a number of senses of that word. And I think some, if not most, of those senses are not subject to quantification.

    [​IMG]

    An example from a different venue of art: Though the shape of this vase on my desk is ubiquitous to modern eyes, when it was made, it was a new shape to the culture context within which it was presented. It was a new way of looking at form. It is an original Van Briggle dating from before 1910. Why do its lines and curves hold grace when other iterations of the form seem clumsy and graceless when compared? Can the beholder give terms that are exacting in the explanation of why this works and that doesn't? I think a pretense can be made to that end, but it never graduates from that. Perhaps you just haven't found the right new curve yet, the right line in your art that strikes the eye and intrigues instead of discomforts. I wish you well in your endeavors. :)

    Wrey
     
  7. Siena

    Siena Senior Member

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    If you're writing for you, then it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

    If you secretly want to earn money from your writing, then others will have to like it. In which case it will have to conform to some conventions.
     
  8. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    @msmith, I took a look at your website, and I actually really like what you're doing with most of your stories (most, not all, but that's to be expected ;)). So will say that there certainly is an audience for your work. It's just a matter of finding the right magazine to publish it (if that's your goal).
     
  9. Rafiki

    Rafiki Active Member

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    /
    /shrug

    Write for yourself first and the world second. If your goal is publication you're gonna have to listen to what others say, they've walked the path before and know where all the pitfalls are. If you plan on writing for yourself, well that's another story isn't it? To be fair, though, people dislike your work for a reason. I don't know what that reason is, but I'm certain it's there. Sometimes the masses have good suggestions, it might behoove you to listen to them.
     
  10. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    You say people read your stuff and then "demand" to know what does this mean and why is this like that - that is a case of the reader *not understanding*. Any denial of this would just be self-delusion, sorry to say.

    You say people are offended and "refuse" to engage - seems like you're doing a whole lot of blaming your readers and absolutely refusing to see any need to change on your part. That, my friend, is the beginning of failure. If you can't take critique, don't show your work to people. If everyone has pretty much the same reaction to your work, could it be that the 100 people might be right and you, the only one, are the one who's wrong here? Or do you insist that it's the readers who are wrong? Your language screams "I'm a victim!" but you show no evidence of actually being willing to see any perspective other than your own.

    Think of art as what you like. You can think yourself an unappreciated genius who's ahead of his own time and therefore a laughing stock, not due to any error of his own but because of the ignorance of the people. But no, none of this would actually resolve your problem, or give you any peace.

    Either accept the view that you're a genius, realise that no one's ever gonna appreciate you and be content with continuing the path you're on, since you have chosen it, or make some compromises with the realisation that you might just be wrong. Those are really your only two choices. Pick one, and then live with it and continue as your path dictates. But stop blaming everyone but yourself. If everyone has the same reaction - there's *something* there, their reaction is as valid as yours. You'd be foolish to dismiss them by making readers look like they're your enemies and enemies of art. Some readers, you might be surprised, can appreciate art just fine - perhaps your work isn't art. It may be, it may not be, but show some flexibility. It can't hurt to explore. Isn't that what art is about anyway?
     
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  11. JayG

    JayG Banned Contributor

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    This, I think, is at the crux of the problem. Some things to think about.

    1. The reason readers come to us for fiction is that they hope to be entertained. They might also want to learn, but before anything else comes entertainment. Fail in that and your audition is over. Being confused or bored is not entertaining.
    2. Every time you do something the reader thinks of as "wrong," like getting creative with punctuation, or failing to provide signposts for your self-guiding trail, in the form of context, you're causing the reader to work harder than they would when reading someone else's work. That extra work must be counterbalanced by the extra enjoyment provided by the reading. Fail to pay the reader for that extra effort and the sound you hear will be the cover of the work swinging shut.
    3. The reader and the writer have an implied contract. We pay them for their time and attention with reading pleasure that justifies that expenditure (and the money we hope to get).
    4. Writing for publication is a business. And in business, with good reason, the customer is always right, and always has the right of refusal. Given that, our attitude must be, "How can I serve you?" not, "Here it is, take it or leave it."
     
  12. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    If all writers held this viewpoint, we would have no Ulysses, The Sound and the Fury, or Lolita (among many, many other novels). Some books are meant to challenge the reader, and some readers love being challenged.
     
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  13. Macaberz

    Macaberz Pay it forward Contributor

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    Interesting to see @msmith and your school of thought here. It may be just me, but it seems to me they are exact opposite stance to how one should write and for what purposes.
     
  14. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    Not necessarily so. JayG did state that the extra effort has to be "paid for" in extra pleasure or enjoyment - which is not saying readers don't like being challenged. It's saying (and forgive me, JayG, if I'm putting words in your mouth) that challenging them demands an appropriate reward for their acceptance of that challenge. Some books are challenging and boring as hell; others are challenging and well worth the effort.
     
  15. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    If its success you're interested in, which presumably you are (judging by your tears ) you're going to need to develop a thick skin. You know, part of writing is about developing a relationship with your readers. It's hard to do that if you can't listen to them, use their input to find a way that YOU think will ultimately satisfy them. I'm sure natural exceptions exist, but if you were one of them, you wouldn't have posted this. So my advice is to learn to adapt. When you become Ali then you can fight with your hands down.
     
  16. msmith

    msmith New Member

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    im really grateful to the people who took the time to understand what i requested and went to the trouble of offering me some help with what i asked for. thank you so much for taking my request at face value and making the time to help me out. greatly appreciated, kind and thoughtful, generous individuals.
     
  17. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    Exactly.

    @Macaberz said:

    So, it would seem. JayG always makes it clear that his advice is given from the perspective of writing commercial fiction. But what JayG understands, as well as a number of others who have posted in this thread, is that being unconventional must have a payoff for the reader or else the reader will go elsewhere. And no matter how "artistic" the writer believes his work to be, what does that mean if no one will read it? I think this is what is at the core of @msmith's angst. One wants one's art to be appreciated, even if one isn't in it for the money.

    So, @msmith, I hope you will derive some benefit from the collective advice being offered. And good luck with your writing.
     
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  18. msmith

    msmith New Member

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    i bid you my many fondest farewells, dear hypothetical readers, as you depart my poor desolate cultures for fashionably greener and far more digestible pastures, and fields of lush fictional clover. i know how sincerely you hope for my true redemption, but alas, i am merely a poor forlorn sinner, doomed to wander the plains of perdition, lost forever.
     
  19. lex

    lex Member

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    Indeed: that's apparently the role you've chosen - for whatever reason - to impose on yourself.

    I think I understand the brunt of all the criticisms to which you've subjected yourself.

    If you dress up what you write in what I'm guessing to be your idea of "an interesting style", that's going to dissuade people from reading and enjoying it. That's fine, if you want your writing to be a hobby, and if you're writing only for yourself. There's nothing wrong with that, at all. But if you want more than that (and I strongly suspect that you do, otherwise you wouldn't have started this thread), then my message to you is that you're causing your own problems and you probably won't improve the overall situation, with regard to your writing and its reception, until you acknowledge that.
     
  20. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    This thread is come to conclusion and before I have to delete any other posts that are of no constructive value to anyone, it shall be called done.

    [​IMG]
     
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