Does anyone else have trouble letting go of grudges? Why is it so hard? Is it because we think that by letting go, we’re letting whoever we dislike *win*? The reason I ask is because there’s someone I used to work with who was a very toxic person. He always gave me crap because I was a far-left Liberal and he was a Trump supporting conservative Republican. He even made fun of my hearing disability at one point. He hated minorities, and was a raging Islamophobic. Well, he died last November of acute fibrosis of the lungs. I’ve no idea what that is, but it probably doesn’t sound good. So why do I have a hard time getting over it? Why can’t I just let it go? He *died*, and he didn’t even get to die a pleasant death. He died in a hospital, unable to get the lung transplant he needed. He’s gone, I’m here. Why is this not enough for me? Why can’t I let go? Why am I still chewing over this? My other disturbing realization is that...I’m hating Christians. Because that guy was also a devout Christian. Am I not doing the same thing he did, only against Christians? “Oh, but I’m hating the right people”. The *right* people?! There is no such thing as *right people* when hating an entire group for the faults of a few fringe nutcases. If I wouldn’t dare mock or get offended at other religions, why can’t I do the same for Christianity? I feel like my petty vindictiveness is at war with the person I know I can be — the kind-hearted, rational, compassionate soul. I really don’t want to become a shitlord, basically the far-left Liberal version of that person. I’m scared of becoming that person. What is wrong with me? I need help.
If somebody you really liked said they were a Christian, would you suddenly hate them? If you met somebody and they said they were a Christian, would you instantly write them off as a potential friend? If yes, then you have a problem. If not, then all is fine. Hating somebody who was a Christian isn't the same as hating all Christians. Even hating a Christian because of the way they use their religion isn't the same. The guy dying didn't eradicate all the hurt he caused you. Why would it? I don't think you need help. You're a normal human being. Edit: Sorry, that was insensitive. You're a normal orca.
Just like @Tenderiser, a few crazy people do not represent the majority of that group. I'm Christian, I consider myself conservative, I most likely disagree with most of your world view, but I don't hate you. I don't even dislike you, in-fact from my interactions with you on the forums I'd say I like you. Just because you disagree with someone's beliefs doesn't mean you have to dislike them. I'm the oddball in my group of friends. I never swear, I listen to Christian music, and I don't agree with a lot of the stuff that goes on nowadays. They are fine with that stuff for the most part, and that's their opinion. I'm not going to dislike them or not associate with them because they have different opinions than me. Additionally, we all have flaws, just because he gave you crap doesn't mean he was an all around bad person (or maybe he was, I know even less than you do about him ). ETA: After re-reading this post I realized it may come off as me attempting to talk about how great I am. That was 100% not my intention, I was just trying to use my personal experiences as an example.
In my non-Iain life, I'm finding tribal identity a hard thing to embrace, but <non-Iain> finds it necessary. You're either with us or against us. Here, I can be a nice and broad-minded guy. Funny how the internet works, isn't it?
Agreed, and I am also a Christian-Conservative A lesson humanity needs to learn, and a lot of people need to realize they are no better than those they hate. as someone who relegated himself to the sideline of life, basically just waiting for the pending Nuclear Apocalypse. No one is the right person to hate, except bad guys... like child rapists, serial killers and politicians.
Dude, take a deep breath. Let it out. Let me say a few things that are going to sound random and circuitous, but hopefully it will all come together. This mostly applies to America where the OP lives. Firstly, what you have to realize is that you, I, all of us, are living in a slice of time where we are being bombarded with a never-ending barrage of propaganda, and it comes in all flavors, from all sides. It has to do with a cultural shift that I am old enough to remember right around when it happened, and at least some of the things that made it happen, and how things were before this shift. There was a time when whether you were liberal or conservative, both sides, both, let me repeat, BOTH SIDES, held up their more moderate representatives as the ideal because these were the representatives that were able to bridge the midline and talk to the other side. Moderate was the ideal. Moderates = Ideal. Let me say it again: there was a time, not long ago, when Moderate was the thing to be. I know it's stupid that I'm repeating it, but there has been more than a decade's worth of effort trying to kill that idea to get through. The shift happened right around the time of the first big, 24-hour news networks. Before then, "the news" was the 6:00 o'clock news on your local news station, NBC, ABC, CBS, and reporters were extremely respectable people who dedicated themselves to presenting the facts of events, as clearly and in as much detail as they could, so that The People could know what was going on and draw their own conclusions. The coming of the major news networks killed that paradigm and turned it into one of feeding the people opinions in which to believe, in order to get them to watch as long as possible and pay for the whole shebang. And then came the internet, which was like giving warp-drive capability to australopithecines. As individuals, some of us were ready for it, but as a species, we most certainly were not. And lordy, did the wackjobs and wingnuts OF ALL FLAVORS rejoice and cry hallelujah. What does all this mean? It means that the shift in culture cashed in on the phenomenon of tribalism and sold it hard. Like, super hard. Like, a free bag of heroin in every box hard. The words Liberal and Conservative don't mean what they are supposed to mean, either to the people who identify as such or to the people who fling either term in derision, so we do this stupid little dance where every few months we change the terms in an attempt to shed whatever taint has been acquired. Moderates aren't even called Moderates anymore; they're called Centrists, which both sides, Red and Blue, immediately and hysterically branded as "the idiot willing to listen to the ultra-extreme garbage from the other side". (smdh) You say you're a far-left liberal, but honestly I don't think you really know what that means. Not in the bigger picture, not outside of this slice of time in which we live. But you've been told that's what you are because the other side of the spectrum has jammed anything that remotely smells Liberal all the way up against the wall of triggered Radicalism. And the other side of the spectrum has done the exact same thing, squeezing even the smallest hint of Conservatism all the way over to foaming-at-the-mouth Reactionism. Ever notice how the extremes of BOTH sides tend to use the same slurs, accusations, and terms of derision when they talk about each other? It's the one thing they both manage to get right. Look at the graph I made below. Notice that when each side reaches its extreme, a connection opens up linking to the other side, but its not the good connection like the one down below where people can talk rationally. No, it's a point of extremism on both sides that opens a kind of metaphorical Einstein Rosen Bridge, connecting the two in a matter/antimatter explosion that not even Geordi Laforge could contain with all the resources of the Enterprise at his disposal. And those of us in the middle, the Moderates, when we look up all we see is the explosion, and any difference either side may still say is there is gone. Who can tell them apart at that point? Not me. You don't hate Christians. You don't. You're being fed a line of political BS on a 24 hours basis that says you should, but you don't. I certainly don't. When Hurricane Maria destroyed my life, many of my devoutly Christian friends banded together to help me. I don't hate them. They don't hate me. They know I'm gay. They couldn't be paid to care. The propaganda message isn't them any more than the WBC is them or Trump is them. Stop looking up at the explosion happening above you. That explosion is representative of a tiny fraction of insanely ferocious people who have bought into untenable political ideas ON BOTH SIDES. It has nothing to do with the VAST MAJORITY of us who lie somewhere closer in the middle. I'm also going to ask you, as the admin of this little Shangri-La tucked into the Himalayas, to think before you post what are clearly going to be incendiary topics. Doing that is part of the whole ecosystem of propaganda. These "holy shit, look at this horrible thing I found on Facebook" posts feed the machine. It's been all I can do to try to keep this place on topic and about writing through this moment of digital cultural insanity that is gripping the species. Focus on the middle, put your efforts there, give it mass and gravity so that things can shift back again to a place of rational sanity.
Orca, your not messed up your human, you were in a place where this guy was there and his toxic nature affected you, but deep inside yourself you railed against that infection. That's the thing about toxic controlling people like that, most of the time they're unable to change from that because they are stubborn. If you can I would say learn to let go of those feelings. Ask yourself this. As I ask you right now, what do you love? I hope it's more than one thing, of course it is. Whatever you love, let the business of that fill you up again with joy, happiness, peace, comfort, love. Those things are just some of what is best in this world of ours. I hope those words give you comfort. I'm probably one of the most messed up people on this forum you'll meet, I'm a vampire, I'm a lover not a fighter, if somone hated me enough to punch me in the face I'd probably take it, lick the blood from my lips and ask them is that enough or do you need more? I'm a lesbian and a vampire and I love to drink blood, I recently found someone I love dearly he loves me back with all his heart, I asked him if he would let me drink his blood. He was afraid at first, now he's not. So maybe I fall more in the b section of LGBT. It's a little confusing but I wouldn't trade this feeling for anything. I am a Christian, I've tried reading the Bible, I couldn't do it, too much bad news. It's the same reason I don't watch the news for every inspiring thing they have on there broadcast the rest of it is bullets and bloodshed. I left my bible study group for a time to find myself. This me is a fairly recent development. Only one month ago I was frozen inside... numb... I would've given anything to look at a me in the mirror that felt anything. Now things have changed for me, I'm back with my bible study group. They're glad to have me back, my girls missed me and I missed them. They still understand, I'm not there to study the Bible. I'm there to experience them. I'm a contradiction, I am as mad as a hatter, I'm a vampire, I'm a Christian who doesn't know whether the rest of the Bible matters as much as knowing gods grace, being full of joy, loving yourself (that's the key). If my pastor knew that in only a month God had change me from a dead vampire whose heart was frozen. The inspiration he sent me is what got my heart beating again. I haven't written anything story-wise in 20+ years. Then one day three weeks ago I got a story idea for a vampire and a ballerina, pure adrenaline flowed through my veins, I hadn't written anything in so long, I knew I had to. Had to get this out of my mind and onto my tablet. So I put as much as I could onto my notepad, the words flowed like the sweetest blood running over my tongue and down my throat. If I told anyone in my bible study group they wouldn't understand, and maybe no one here will understand this because I'm honey hatter. If I told my pastor all these things he'd grab his crucifix and holy water and drive a wooden stake through my heart. They wouldn't understand that my transformation to my old self again isn't just one thing. It's everything. I remembered who I was, how to love myself again, how to love others, things they are a changing. For the best. Did you know Jesus was a rule breaker. I think they wrote a whole new rule book saying it's ok to be a bi-sexual blood drinking vampire, that loves to walk up to random people she meets that has piercings, tattoos, and neon blue Mohawks. I walk up to the beautiful people and strike up a conversation. I tell them I love there tattoos and piercings. What's there story. Yesterday I went to the hardware store to get a 50ft electric cord because I like to play my electric guitar outside and annoy the neighbors, (I almost electrocuted myself to death yesterday, the old electric cord I had, had frayed wires as I was playing it loud I ran my index finger along the g string! Omg no pun intended but... yes pun intended. Ran my finger across her g-string and it felt like I'd sliced open the tip of my finger, I looked at my fingertip it has a red line across my finger. The cord shorted excess electricity through my amp, through my guitar and through my guitar strings. Death by guitar what a way to go.) The girl I met in the store was a very pretty blonde, I told her I loved her choker, she said she hardly ever takes it off. She had a lovely neck too. Not all christians are bad I would say from experience, ask yourself this, how big is your imagination? Now ask this, how big is Gods imagination. I know he gave me back many things recently, my heart, my love, my feelings, my writing, my life. Can you imagine a Christian vampire? He can. I can. I hope this helps in some way, just know I wouldn't hurt anyone unless they asked me to... in a vampire way.
In addition as I said on the other thread holding the occasional grudge , or being a little bit petty or nasty means you are human, none of us are saints (even saints but lets not go there) . I wouldn't piss on my ex boss if he was on fire , and there's three or four other people out there who if I saw them drowning i'd be sure to report it... by second class mail. Out of a world population of 7 billion or so not liking a few people isn't a major sin The other thing I'd say is that you seem to have pretty dramatic personality - it's like the thing last year when you were panicking about being an alcoholic because you were drinking 4 or 5 pints a week. With these 'ermagerd I need help because....' moments, try to take a deep breath and restore some sense of proportion.
Thanks for the replies everyone. @big soft moose brings up a valid point — I do have a dramatic personality that’s easily ginned up and manipulated. Should probably do something about that. I don’t hate Christians, just the crazy ones. Sadly it’s the crazy ones I’m surrounded by on a daily basis, but don’t worry, this Orca has nothing against y’all in general. @Wreybies — It might be better for my sanity if I avoid the news overall. Both sides are willing to demonize the other as the big bad evil. I’ll be sure to unfollow certain groups on Facebook. Again, thanks for the replies and hearing me throw a blowhole. :3 Now to eat some krill and see what I can do to mitigate future episodes.
Yeah, not a bad idea. I've got a few real-life friends who keep adding me back into "angry gay atheist" groups, and I've had to tell them to stop it. And... I get it, I do, these friends experienced some bad things in life and they need a place to vent, but I didn't experience those things. It didn't happen to me. I don't need a place to be an angry atheist because I'm not an angry atheist. I'm a pretty passive atheist. I don't go rock-climbing either, and for the same reason, no need need to follow a We Don't Fucking Rock-Climb! page. I don't feel a need to get all turnt over pitons or carabiners or whatever shoes they use, or... anything.
I've removed myself from those Facebook groups. If they try putting me back in, I'll tell them to stop. I don't want to fill my head with negativity and hatred like that poor soul did. He was a good guy in a lot of ways, but he was filled with hatred. :[ It's actually pretty tragic now that I think about it. Well, I'm not gonna do what he did and fill my life with things that pisses me off. I'm gonna be better than that and fill my life with things that give me joy. Whatever happens, happens. Meanwhile I want to have a happy life until then.
@Wreybies I really wish I could print this (both your posts) out on business cards and just hand them out to people every time they start up their shit. You should write a book
Is that really a thing ? What do Gay atheists have to be angry about in particular ? Id have expected them to be more chilled than say Gay Christians or Gay Muslims, since Atheism doesn't discriminate based on what you do in the bedroom ? Or are they just angry in general, in which case are there also groups for angry straight atheists ?
I assume that they're condemned and insulted for being gay, and condemned and insulted for being atheists.
The main source of anger and point of union with many of them is having been forced to go through some flavor of conversion therapy. And yes, as a gay person living in the U.S., conversion therapy is something I keep on my radar, but, again, it didn't happen to me. No one put me through that. Engaging in a group of people who are sharing their anger and trauma over a thing I never experienced has value insomuch as understanding their anger and trauma, but sticking with it, day in and day out, every time I sign on to Facebook, seeing horrible images scoured from "the dark web", this isn't healthy for me. It doesn't improve my ability to engage, and it certainly is detrimental to my overall outlook and demeanor during the day. ETA: This is why I remain so militantly against the dilution of the forum with this kind of stuff. It's not like there aren't PLENTY of venues for people to engage this stuff, go all bonkers over this stuff, get agro in the comments section over this stuff, etc. etc. etc. There is no shortage of place to do all that. What there is a shortage of, is places to not do that, to talk about something else, to not trip over a bewildering array of soapboxes. Of that, there is a wicked dearth.
Yeah fair play - I did a bunch of research into that for "Darkest Storm" (which as you know was initially inspired by your blog about these fears) and its not something i'd want to see on a daily basis. And yes you are absolutely right that the forum is about writing - not about any of that other shit
And more to the OP's point - and I'm going to be pedantic here - in our fervor and crusade for {insert cause of the month} we lose balance. We lose any way to stop for a minute and have a beer. Why does a thread about Diet & Exercise go all Apocalypse Now by page two of posts? I mean, seriously, Diet & Exercise! What the entire fuck? That's a thread that under normal circumstances should have run a normal run of posts and slowly rotated back to the oblivion of Page #2, but instead: I have never, ever engaged in a mass banning of members. I've seen it happen in other forums, I've seen entire groups of people harassing one another suddenly ALL disappear, but I have never done it. There are probably members who think that's a lie since most bannings are done by me, but a mass banning, never. Never, ever. Not once. But I absolutely understand how/why they take place.
I've done that on another forum as a moderator - when the only other option would have been to close. As I recall we banned 12 and suspended about 20 more in an effort to stop the civil war. It wasn't entirely successful and the owner pulled the plug less than a year later. (that was a forum about canal boats , not you would have thought the most inflammable community ... but we were infiltrated by trolls and by the time we realised pretty much the only other option was to 'take off and nuke the site from orbit' )
My two cents for you. I actually think it's a pretty normal reaction, when someone's hurt you long and deep enough that you've come to abhor everything they are and stand for, to more or less consciously perceive anyone you'd identify as their "kind" as evil. I'm definitely not saying it's fine, only that it seems like a normal, human reaction to me. I really wish my English was better so I could say this right, but... We're intellectual, emotional beings designed to make these associations - it's naturally impossible not to, at least to some extent, whether we're aware of it or not. I think it's when we find we can't come back from those places (of hurt, of anger, of hatred) that we need to address the issue seriously. It sounds like all this is still fresh, and your wounds just need the healing time alone will bring (this does sound very corny, I am aware of that). To comment on your first point, I (and you and others here, I'm sure) have actually heard of a few accounts of people beating themselves up for feeling powerless at letting go of a grudge they had for someone who had died. Doing away with this grudge is going to require some effort on your part, obviously, but you're unhappy feeling this way rather than trying to justify it, so that's half the job done. Edit: I'm trying to figure out how to delete early posts I've realised could link me to this forum once I've published a WIP on my blog. At the same time I'm reading posts I wrote. I've edited the first part of the second paragraph above because re-reading it it weirdly sounds like I'm both lecturing LTW and telling him off at the same time - the quotes especially, read a bit like I'm going, "you call this a "realisation" - brother pleeeeze...". This is positively not where I was coming from when I was writing this.
It's also kind of petty of me. I mean, the guy's dead sooo...I'm just gonna stew over it? Isn't that letting him win? It's also kind of petty of me to then want to take my anger out on his friends. I mean, the fuck did they do? Dare to be his friends? They did nothing to me. I suppose it's a human, primal response. "How dare you all like him when I don't!" This thread has given me some thought.
Yeah, but this isn't like liking vinegar-based versus mayo-based potato salad. He was a bully. He bullied you. They chose to be friends with a bully. Now, maybe they didn't know he was a bully, etc., etc., but "friends with a bully" is certainly a trait that would make me wary of a person. I don't mean I'd do anything bad to them, I just would not give them the normal default level of trust that I'd give other people.
Please, don't remind me of that thread. I started it, and by page... I'm not going to go back and look, I banned myself from it. I'll discuss the topics elsewhere, but that place is like shaving with a Morganti blade.
