1. Nul

    Nul New Member

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    In Desperate Need of Help with Plot

    Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by Nul, Feb 5, 2020.

    Hello. I've been working on a horror novel about someone who moves in next to an 'evil' neighbor. I originally imagined the neighbor as having a lot of bad qualities that bother the protagonist that snowball into the protagonist realizing the neighbors is actually evil (i.e., supernatural evil). I'm finding I have loads and loads of psychological crap this neighbor is doing to the protagonist and I'm starting to think I have two separate books going -- one about the horror of someone mentally ill or damaged plus man's inhumanity to man, and a separate one about supernatural horror.

    Do you think I need to split those two ideas? Would someone supernaturally evil also be a bad person, or are those two things separate? (And which do you find scarier?) Or should there be a bit of both?

    Any feedback or insight would be appreciated. I'm stuck. Thank you.
     
  2. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Personally I would keep them together. I love to try to figure out what the real reasoning is behind the various supernatural ideas, and usually it's something psychological. Understanding that as an author helps immensely I think, depending on how you use it. It's often about the different ways people feed off of each other in those nasty codependent relationships.

    It sounds like maybe you've brainstormed more than you need. That's actually not a bad thing—the more ideas you pour on in the early stages the better chance you'll come up with some good ones. But you do need to be ready to cut away the dead wood.
     
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  3. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I should add—I'd be careful not to connect the psychology and the supernatural elements too openly. For my part, I'd just want to understand the psychological underpinnings that each of the supernatural tropes are built on to add depth and dimension to the characters and to give plausible shape to the story.
     
  4. TheOtherPromise

    TheOtherPromise Senior Member

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    In my opinion I'd prefer a story with supernatural horror than one without any day.

    You didn't list enough for me to quite understand what type of story you are telling, so some of my comments might not work for your story.

    But I think it would be interesting if the protagonist starts to doubt their sanity because of their neighbor's supernatural elements. If they have an intense fear/hate of this person and then start to see them turn into a bat for instance (I don't know what kind of supernatural you are going for, so I'm just making stuff up), they might not accept what their eyes tell them. And chalk it up to their intense dislike for this person is making them see things that aren't there.

    The reader on the other hand starts to realize that evil neighbor isn't entirely human and begins to worry about what will happen when the protagonist, ignoring these warning signs, gets in over their head.

    Basically supernatural/fantastical elements should be used to enhance realistic conflicts. If your antagonist is psychologically manipulating the protagonist, their supernatural elements can be used to raise the stakes and enhance that, rather than detract from it like you're worried they might.
     
  5. Cephus

    Cephus Contributor Contributor

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    I would immediately ask why this neighbor is going after your MC. There has to be some in-universe reason for it. What is the purpose behind it? Evil for the sake of evil doesn't usually do well.
     
  6. Nul

    Nul New Member

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    Thanks to all who responded. What I'm having trouble with is combining the idea that people can seem evil within their humanity -- trying to turn others against someone, lying to them or about them, using them, setting them up for failure etc. These are things we would say someone was 'evil' to do but are within the realm of human. Maybe the way being a sociopath is evil. Even being a serial killer could be called evil but it's not supernatural evil -- it's human evil.

    So would it be far fetched if the main character has an intense dislike of the neighbor but is told they're reading things into the situation that aren't there, the neighbor is fine, etc., but then those tell-tale humanly/sociopathic evil traits turned out to be actually supernaturally evil as well? In the way the stepford wives are the kind of cold, mechanical women we love to hate, but then they turn out to be actually more than that? Or if the kid in The Bad Seed were more than a sociopathic kid but, say, possessed?

    Would that be too much?
     
  7. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    What you're getting at is the fact that before modern psychology people would try to understand certain strange behaviors or a seeming ability to control people unnaturally as things like witchcraft, zombie-ism, werewolves and vampires etc. For this reason, yes—it would make great sense to have an antagonist who's say a vampire and also maybe a malignant narcissist or something of that nature, the type who do seem to need to feed off of the 'living' (those who still have their full humanity) and in doing so, often turn them into the same thing, in the sense that victims of certain abuses frequently become abusers themselves and lose their humanity (empathy for others). But keep in mind, narcissists and their kin—sociopaths and psychopaths, tend to be very good at camouflaging their bad side behind a disguise of charm and wit. The disguise generally only comes off behind closed doors when no witnesses are around, unless they totally lose their temper or become desperate and need to feed openly in public—or they become so drunk on power that they can't resist showing off their power and control over the victim.

    The best stories and movies about the supernatural are usually built on this kind of understanding, though it isn't necessarily shown in the story itself. Just knowing about it and having some experience with these types of people can enable writers/creators to get some powerful authenticity into the work. Even if the psychological underpinnings aren't openly shown, people can feel that there's something familiar—something very real going on.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020
  8. Aldarion

    Aldarion Active Member

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    Keep them together, and try exploring how these two things interact. After all, much of supernatural horror is, in its basis, psychological horror (e.g. whole Lovecraft mythos) combined with the fear of unknown.
     
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  9. Richach

    Richach Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    Sounds like there may be conflict between the characters which will convey emotions. That is a good thing. Keep them together.
     
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  10. Nephthys

    Nephthys New Member

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    Definitely not. There have been a couple of times in my life where I have felt certain people were... bad seeds we'll say, and basically had responses similar to 'no they're great' .... and in the end, they were revealed as very bad seeds. :nosleep: And while they weren't supernaturally evil (that I can confirm ;)), it means this scenario is plausible.
    I say include both elements. I love supernatural themes, and I feel like it gives you a ticket to run wild with your story. If your reader isn't in the know about the suspect neighbour, highlighting the MC's feelings around them may heighten their suspicions and intrigue around what is really going on too.
     
  11. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Here's the real secret behind stories of the supernatural. While the modern psychological/scientific approach is more factually correct, the superstitious descriptions and ideas more accurately capture the inner reality—the way we experience things. In a sense our modern logic and reason is a hedge—a way of trying to devalue the power of the more intense experiences through clinical language and data, so we can separate ourselves from the immediacy and intensity of the way we really experience things. It can definitely be helpful, but in certain contexts you can feel the shallowness of the purely logical approach—its inadequacy to express the true power of certain situations.

    If you're in the grip of a complex or a neurosis the language of mythology or religion can better describe what you're feeling and the impossibility of resisting it. And when you're dealing with vampires, werewolves or witches etc, you're definitely in the grip of a complex or neurosis or something similar.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
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  12. Whitecrow

    Whitecrow Active Member

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    My thoughts:
    You said that you tried to make a psychological horror while simply creating an antagonist at the beginning as a bad and evil character.

    The problem is, in my opinion, two things.
    1) The psychological horror most of all scares people who are not monsters in the flesh and not evil characters, they scare a bit with other things.
    2) A negative character that turns out to be a villain. The only psychological pressure a given character can do is analogy. But the more negative and non-humane you are to draw it, the less anology will remain. Therefore, to use the analogy, pleasant characters are used that turn out to be psychopaths.

    The principles of psychological horror that I know of and which you can use.
    1) Analogy. - The principle shows everything as close to reality as possible. Usually the villain is not some kind of magician or werewolf, it is a neighbor, friend or just a colleague at work. In ordinary situations, he seems to be a normal person, whose people are hundreds and thousands around. And it turns out that he is not at all who he is pretending to be. The horrors of such a world can not only be reflected, but even better, they can be taken from real life. In the world, a huge number of terrible perverts, and not like those in 50 shades of gray, but much worse. Enter Snaff or Guro in the search and you will find a huge number of sources of inspiration for your psychopath. (They have their own community where you can chat.)
    Example: Most films about maniacs.

    2) uncanny valley - This principle was discovered by robotics. The bottom line is that our mind is very sterotypic, it has a certain idea of all things. But when you come across something close to a sterotypic image but not an appropriate image, our brain begins to sound the alarm. You begin to feel uncontrollable fear. The brain says that either something is wrong or I'm losing my mind.
    Example: Fear of freaks and people with disabilities. (Games with mirrors, photographs and paintings are also built on this.)

    3)Fishi -Here the essence is similar to the second paragraph, but slightly different. The second paragraph dealt with the external image of things. This is about events. If the event seems unlikely, or impossible by chance, then our brain begins to look for reasons. You turn into a real paronoic, as you try to bring everything together.
    Example: Sequence (2013), The Game (1997 film) Good examples.

    4) Lack of information - They don’t show the whole picture to a person, they don’t explain what is happening. A person finds himself in a hurricane of events, unable to understand what is happening.

    5) Time and space - It resembles the fourth point, but here it is not events that are disoriented, but time and space confusing the reader and character.

    6) Powerless - Usually Lovecraft was played with this. This principle makes the character an insignificant and helpless participant in history, absolutely incapable of influencing anything, and only able to observe unfolding events.

    7) Opposite the mirror - Situations that either transform the main character into a villain, or force him to make a decision, and then live with the consequences. There is pressure on the feeling of guilt, and the transformation of the character under the pressure of the surrounding world.The difficulty is to create a character with whom a person will initiate himself, then force the character to make choices with which the person will agree, and then drastically force a person to see this character from a different angle and see a monster in this character and, as a result, see a monster in himself.

    The list is far from complete ... Plus, I did not mention the creation of psychological fears based on phobias.

    Initially, determine what you will put pressure on the reader and from this start from writing your story. In my opinion, it will be easier than starting from a character.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
  13. Nul

    Nul New Member

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    Thanks again to all who replied! It's been really helpful and interesting to read the responses.

    I guess my problem is that I've really developed the ways the neighbor is sociopathically evil to the MC, to the point that the supernatural evil seems like an afterthought rather than the source of the behavior, and when i work on the supernatural evil part, it's like a parallel plot. Like, Dracula can be a real bitch sometimes.

    This is not my story at all, but... would Dracula try to break down their victim using human methods, so they could then attack them as a vampire? Or are those two impulses separate?

    I'm having a hard time expressing this dilemma without being specific, but again, so far all the comments have been really helpful so if anyone wants to continue, I'd appreciate the continued feedback.

    Thanks again!
     
  14. TheOtherPromise

    TheOtherPromise Senior Member

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    This is a good example, because in many ways Dracula (and old-school vampires in general) represents a very real threat. Rapists and sexual predators. While he uses supernatural hypnosis in the book, in several different takes throughout the ages it really just comes down to charm and flirtation. He seduces his victims so they invite him in, where he then preys on them.

    It would probably help if we knew what exactly you mean by supernatural evil. If the neighbor is a demon for instance they'll prey on the hero in a different way then they would if they were a vampire or an evil witch.
     
  15. The Multiverse

    The Multiverse Member

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    It would be interesting if you went for the psychological horror part as the main focus and in the end use the supernatural as a mechanic to explain the events of the srory. A "perfect neighbor" type evil villian and nobody suspects them until the reveal at the very end. Loads if mechanics could be used in a wide variety of ways to make a compelling story. The important part is the reaxtions of the main character. They need to be relatable enough for the reader to put themselves into that role.
     
  16. Nul

    Nul New Member

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    Thanks again to everyone who responded! I just read through all the replies again and they are all very insightful and inspiring! I'm going to continue checking in if anyone wants to continue adding feedback.

    Thanks again!!
     

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