Information density and layering a character

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by Sig Studios, Aug 29, 2016.

  1. Sack-a-Doo!

    Sack-a-Doo! Contributor Contributor

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    I'm always up for stuff like this. Is this video viewable by anyone? If so, would you please post a link?
     
  2. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    No!!!! :) In fact, even if they guess, lie like a rug. Telling the truth will ONLY bring you problems. Especially if you change them or add bits they don't like.
     
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  3. Sig Studios

    Sig Studios Member

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    Well just because Moose's Bob wants to join in and dissatisfied doesn't mean he thinks there's one way to live. A problem with him includes not being happy with himself and wishing he could join everyone else. I think this issue is something that someone who's older would experience as they place the blame on themselves for not being confident enough to join in.

    Many younger people in my experience think this is an external problem. I think it's closed minded of Shadow's bob to just assume people enjoying themselves are fake just because of the setting. To me this is a tale tell sign of someone projecting their problem onto other's and being bitter for it because he's not having fun either way.

    Though I guess it's mostly how you look at it. I'm very introverted and went through both of these things but I never found myself really moving forward until I acknowledged that it was really only my problem. Shadow's Bob basically shunts this responsibility onto others by saying they aren't "real enough" to hang out with him anyway and calls them all extroverts on the premise that they're actually having fun.

    In my head it's more of an immature way of thinking. But Moose's Bob isn't going much further either. He's just being a sad sack and going into the emotional corner instead of sticking his hand out and doing something about it. Both of them are in the same position but I believe I'm biased based on when I experienced both and how much I think I grew from both.

    I also think if you had these experiences backwards and you were 48 then you'd probably think the opposite. It's kind of funny at that point I guess.
     
  4. Sig Studios

    Sig Studios Member

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    Hi, I'm not sure how useful this will be for a writer (since I'm using a more visual medium) but here:

     
  5. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax Contributor Contributor

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    It's a bit of a bold statement for somebody who's 19 to make about somebody much older.

    “When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”
    Mark Twain

    However, to the OP...either way of writing it will do; you can have a sad-sack introvert, you can have an embittered, envious introvert, you can have an introvert who doesn't give a damn about how others perceive him, he'll just do whatever floats his own boat.
     
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  6. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    To be fair I was just giving one example of how you do it , not sugesting that every introvert fits the psychotic loser model ;)

    The take away lesson is that if you want bob to be brave you show him doing something brave, if you want him to be a sexist mysoginist pig you show him treating a woman badly ... its the essence of "show don't tell"

    Its also worth remembering that sometimes its a good idea to tell not show - you don't need to show absolutely everything so on occasion its okay to write something like "Bob slammed the door angrily, he couldn't believe Jean sometimes, who did that bitch think she was ?" as showing absolutely everything can get very tiresome for the reader
     
  7. Sack-a-Doo!

    Sack-a-Doo! Contributor Contributor

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    Actually, I do see a lot of crossover, but then the only degree I hold is not for writing, but art and design.

    He's talking about juxtaposition, referencing other works and planted elements, all of which can be used in fiction writing. But, whereas in a visual medium, the media-maker (director, videographer, whatever) just slaps two elements in there and they come together as more than the sum of the parts, writers need to plant images/sounds/feelings beforehand, then recall them to the reader's mind when mind-blowing time comes. It's not always easy, but given enough skill, it's doable. It can be very much a part of fiction writing. Imagine any well-done detective fiction where the murderer is finally revealed and you, as a reader, say to yourself, "Of course! Why didn't I see that?"

    It is, of course, beside the point that I've seen both Mr. Robot and Fight Club and yet still didn't pick up on that piece of music being used in both. Not to mention that I also didn't remember that gun in the popcorn machine... or if I did, I've since forgotten that I remembered. :)
     
  8. Sack-a-Doo!

    Sack-a-Doo! Contributor Contributor

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    I made this mistake very early on and @jannert is 100% right. Never, under any circumstances, admit to basing a character on someone you know. At best, they'll hate you forever and at worst, they'll demand a piece of the action.
     
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  9. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Great advice but a bit too late for me, my female Mc Keri is based on my good friend caroline ... I'm not looking forward to explaining why I have her giving a guy head in the first chapter before getting blown up... i'm leaning towards the "well I was going to base her on you but ..." school of exculpatory bullshit
     
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  10. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    You've got the idea!
     
  11. Sack-a-Doo!

    Sack-a-Doo! Contributor Contributor

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    If you haven't shown her and haven't yet published, it's not too late to do a quick search-n-replace, changing 'Keri' to 'Mabel...' or some-such. :)
     
  12. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    This is true, but the "tall slim girl with green eyes, a knock out figure and an unruly mop of blonde hair as dirty as her laugh" is going to be pretty recognisable whatever i call her
     
  13. Nicola

    Nicola Member

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    If you zoom too far in to the details you begin to loose sight of the bigger picture. One of the best ways to reveal character is simply through dialogue, second to that would be quirks.
     

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