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  1. Not the Territory

    Not the Territory Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Insecurity

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Not the Territory, Mar 31, 2020.

    Are people more insecure today than a few decades ago? Why? Do you think it will get worse or better from here?

    Or am I just noticing it more at my age? Perhaps it is only the posturing that has increased?

    Anyway, I'm interested to hear your thoughts.
     
  2. Lili.A.Pemberton

    Lili.A.Pemberton Active Member

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    These are baseless unscientific thoughts only but I think it has less to do with if people are more insecure than a few decades ago and more has to do with how the insecurity is being projected. With social media and the relative anonymity of the internet people feel more secure in voicing their insecurity versus a few decades ago. That being said it could be as you grow older you better learn the signs of an insecure person.

    But maybe you're right on the posturing bit. I feel like people a few decades ago knew how to really cover up their insecurities with boisterousness but today there's less boisterous and more easy-to-tell signs. [Insert shrugging emoji].
     
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  3. Francisco D Alp

    Francisco D Alp Member

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    This may be the obvious response, but it hasn't yet been said, so: Perhaps people are insecure because they grew up in less secure environments. Divorce and parental separation in general is more socially acceptable these days, and has happened more. People's families aren't stable, so they don't grow up with that emotional security, and end up more socially on the edge.

    It could be argued that growing up in more chaos should make a person develop the social anti-bodies (like vaccines) to cope with chaos, and thus they develop greater internal stability, and manifest more confidence... but I think the problem that this thread poses contradicts this theory.
     
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  4. ThunderAngel

    ThunderAngel Contributor Contributor

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    I think the internet has made people a lot more insecure than those who lived before it were. Every time I talk to a person sixty or older they seem to lack no confidence in themselves: they brag about houses they've built, wars they've fought, people they've met etc. It seems like everyone I've met that is younger than fifty - including myself - is so insecure that we can't even carry on a normal face to face conversation with anyone; many of us find a screen much more comfortable to look at than a pair of human eyes.

    I'm a solid introvert, but I sometimes find myself wishing I could be as comfortable with verbal communication as I am with digital.
     
  5. flawed personality

    flawed personality Contributor Contributor

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    I don't think modern society helps us to be secure, as we're being watched all the time. How can you feel safe like that?
    We're watched at school, watched online, watched at work. Everything we do is tracked and logged. We're encouraged to report unusual behaviour. Google knows what you're going to type before you type it. Your bank knows what your normal spending habits are. The supermarket tells you what's missing in your digital basket before you check out!
    You could argue convenience, but doesn't it all undermine our ability to think for ourselves on the most basic level?
     
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  6. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I think there are many many reasons, but probably all interrelated. Just a few things I think are important:

    • People stopped raising kids to be tough-minded and independent and instead think they need to be protected from everything.
    • Many schools have become indoctrination camps for ideologies. Mass media plays in as well.
    • People are being taught to play the victim card.
    • Government and corporations are now so insulated from reality they've become separate worlds where the laws are different and they feed off the populace rather than support it.
    • I agree with @Thunder Angel that the internet plays a huge part. It allows people to section off into echo chambers where their biases are reinforced endlessly.
    • I think the centerpiece of it all might be that we've switched from a classical, forward-moving society (pretty much the entire free Western world) to a decadent one and all these conditions are the natural result.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2020
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  7. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Also check out Empire, Roman.
     
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  8. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Apparently most societies don't last more than about 200 years before the switch occurs—America celebrated its Bicentennial in 1976. I believe a decadent phase is like a forest fire, it's a necessary throwing off of excess crap that happens in cycles, but some are small and then there comes a massive one that can wipe the society out (see Roman Empire). It's like a society, to remain healthy, needs to move back and forth between a forward growth phase (Traditional, Classical, strength-oriented) to a decadent one (in decay, a falling apart of classical values). Each causes different kinds of problems and either one can destroy a civilization given complete free reign for long enough. There needs to be a dynamic balance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2020
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  9. Not the Territory

    Not the Territory Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    I still more or less see the high magnitude jaw-jacking today. It seems that there is a balance. Too much self-promotion indicates a lack of actions and results to back oneself up, while too little self-promotion indicates a low sense of self-worth. I think what I'm seeing is too much of the former, though I find it interesting you're seeing more of the latter in your slice of the world.

    You also raised an interesting paradox for me, with reference to people being more open online: is it a self-secure action to voice one's insecurities?

    I'm on the fence edge about growing up with chaos as well. Sometimes it seems like the people who came from terrible familial conditions are the most independent and driven. Other times it seems as though the majority of people facing the most issues came from those conditions. The exceptions are often most notable, aren't they? Richard Branson didn't finish school, and he turned out fine, so school is worthless, right?

    I can relate. I'm a complete mess in a face-face interaction. Screens are way more comfortable for me. My question is this, then: why do you think the internet has made people less secure?

    Is it just the amount of content and lifestyles we are comparing ourselves to? Sometimes it seems as though people are trying to conform to certain baselines in an attempt to fit into a global tribe. "Normal" is a rapidly morphing and perpetually dishonest beast.

    I can certainly relate to not feeling safe while surveilled, but at the same time some people might feel safer knowing they're watched. That's usually how state surveillance comes into being: trade a little privacy for a little safety again and again.

    I guess being watched makes you watch yourself. It's not that you're doing anything wrong, but more likely to worry that you will be perceived as such, which leads to an inherent form of insecurity. Security = insecurity? Interesting!

    That third point sticks out for me, especially.

    If one's mistakes and failings can be the fault of
    a loosely diagnosed DSM5 condition (magnitude is an unfortunately mismanaged criteria),
    his parents/prev generation (okay boomer),
    his cultural/ethnic background,
    or anything else out of his control,
    then how honestly can he own his successes?

    It seems like a lose/lose situation, even if those factors are indeed at fault. I think some evidence of this is the 'imposter syndrome' that is mentioned by many successful people. I think it's hard to take credit for the wins when we skip the bill on losses. Agency is unforgiving that way. I stress that I'm not saying that with judgement, and wouldn't try to specifically deride another's detrimental life factors.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2020
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  10. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    It's a matter of finding the line between holding others responsible for their own actions and choices, and blaming them for your problems. Of course it's human nature to fall on the wrong side of that line again and again—projection is hard to recognize. But you can get better at recognizing it and retracting it when you're able. Of course it's a long journey, decades rather than years, and there's no real finish line. But with work you can learn to do better than you were before.

    It also helps immensely to develop a philosophical attitude—to strive to rise above your own petty beliefs and take an impartial attitude. The view from above. Of course try as you might you'll still be influenced subterraneously by your own biases, but you can at least do better than those who steadfastly remain in one camp and blame all problems on the other.
     
  11. flawed personality

    flawed personality Contributor Contributor

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    I suppose it depends on what you consider insecurity to be. Consumer culture thrives on fear. Be that a fear of missing out, a fear of not attaining the right things, fear of not looking the right way etc. It undermines our sense of self, and we end up putting too much into being a certain way to be happy or to fit into what is considered worthy. We focus and fixate on the stuff that doesn't matter, at the expense of what does. People define themselves by education, money, attractiveness, power, their possessions. Who focuses on being genuinely happy with themselves, and working to being better at being humble, compassionate, open minded, and accepting of themselves and others?
    We're taught to compete against each other all the time.
     
  12. Alan Aspie

    Alan Aspie Banned Contributor

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    Yes.

    There are more people with less touch to real life and stronger grip to it's substitutes. That means less experience about handling hard real life situations. That leads to insecurity.
     
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  13. Some Guy

    Some Guy Manguage Langler Supporter Contributor

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    Confusion. Disorientation. I see it as an overwhelming awareness. What does confidence mean if it's detached from reality (something you can touch)? I call it the cereal-box cycle: young, we watch the cartoons and want the prize in the cereal box to the point that we don't care about the cereal. Then we wise up and abandon the cereal, only to move on to the next cereal-box. The interwebs is an exercise in duality. We can be enlightened by the same mechanism that turns us into mindless drones. There's an awful lot of distraction and manipulation, but now I see an increase in young people just turning away from the cereal-box, once they realize it all tastes like the same shit. The situation we're in now is exposing a lot of things with no substance, and they turn pathetically boring once they're all there is. If the cereal box has windows and wheels, or windows and doors, or shiny packaging and no substance, how soon will we burn out on it now? If we do without the little prizes long enough to see there's no substance in them, why should we want them back? There may be less to feel insecure about, or more clarity in what security is, very soon. We'll see.
     
  14. Malisky

    Malisky Malkatorean Contributor

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    I believe that at its core general insecurity has to do with survival prospects, since they tend to lead into a specific lifestyle and that's what everyone is about. As the middle class started quickly "evaporating" after the most recent economic crisis, which is soon to be resumed btw, so did the stress levels skyrocket. Stress isn't an idyllic state of mind of one who is about to choose a way of living. A hell lot of options they say. Options are good they say. Alright, cool, but not if you are not able to separate what's a "real" option and what is a "fake" option. Too much information! The stakes are higher than ever. Either you end up or continue being "poor" and by that I mean the lower middle class that juggles its way into society and carries the heaviest weight of the general economy, or you "sneak" your way onto the higher classes, which a) most probably means you are ruthless and obsessed with "success", b) a total psycho or c) lucky. Yes my friends I mean it. Fucking lucky. You happened to be at the right place at the right time and I mention this, because that's what everybody fantasizes about. That's what the ambitious ones do. It not just your talents or the work you put on something. It has got nothing to do with a right way or a wrong way upon doing things. It has to do mostly with luck and luck favours the bold, furthermore the workaholics. New age motto to succeeding should be "never miss a beat". Oh, I forgot. That's what most of us do just in order to stay afloat.

    Anyhow, for me it's very understandable that people are more insecure than the past. You are taught that in order to make any kind of change in your life or even preserve it, and I presume we can all agree that this derives from your economical situation, you have to stand out. Be perfect. Simple. In korea it's not such a rare thing for girls and boys, to get plastic surgery after they graduate. 1) Because studying like crazy from a very young age has worn them out and it's quite visible. 2) Because looks do matter when you have to do with competition on the exact same level.

    Another thing stated perfectly in a RHCP song goes like this: The more I see the less I know. We live in a fast evolving era of ever expanding information. In the old days you could be excused for not knowing something. Today's standards don't leave such conformities to the youth most commonly. Old people might be excused. Not the younglings though. They can find whichever information they lack immediately through the internet. Simple as that. I believe that this causes a lack of memorisation though as studies have already showed and a lack in focus. When your head is so busy all of the time you can't be at peace with anything. Perhaps there's more to know upon something. Perhaps your source is not trustworthy. Perhaps this, perhaps that. It makes you guess and second guess yourself and then! There came the influencers, at your service! Now you've got a role model of a person you can compare to.

    Anyhow, I could go on and on about this but more or less, I believe that it's pretty damn expected for people to be more insecure than ever. Life just isn't as simple as it used to be, for the better and the worse.
     
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