Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by GingerCoffee, Jun 12, 2014.
Sigh. I don't even know what to say.
I have no idea what this thread title means. You're blaming Bush for events transpiring over five years after he left office? I'm no fan of Bush, but at what point do you people start holding President Obama responsible for what's going on anything ?
It's not just the Bush administration that's to blame. The US has a history of meddling in other countries' affairs. Though the whole Iraq thing was started by the Bush administration, the problem runs deeper than that IMO.
Bush et al invaded Iraq which had nothing to do with the al Qaeda attacks. The result is the chaos you see today and the end is even further out of sight than it ever was. Cheney's "we'll be out of there in 6 months and the Iraqis will love us," was one of the most damaging false beliefs our government has ever had. And it was the Bush administration's decisions to exclude the Sunnis from jobs and any positions that set up the current situation of a Sunni Shi'ite civil war. Not to mention the damage of all the private contractors that took our's and the Iraqi's money and left a disaster of useless infrastructure behind.
Yes, Bush made this mess.
Of course it does. The Brits and a few other EU countries don't have clean hands either.
The problem is the invasion. And then Obama leaving. So America steps into another person's country, only to leave it in still a mess. Good job. Really. I'm slow clapping at the idiocy involved.
There was already issues in the middle east amongst each other, America comes in and thinks they can fix a war that has been going on longer than we were in diapers, then we go let's bring our soldiers back and not fix the fucking issue we created. All we did was cause more strife and split, in a country already split and filled with strife.
Sadam Hussain was using terror to keep some real nutters under wraps. Now he is gone, the demons are coming out.
Had a pub conversation with some guys involved in military intelligence many a year ago when the US first started not liking Sadam. They informed us that we shouldn't kill Sadam because even though he is a batshitcrazy dictator, He is keeping the batshitcrazier asshats under wraps, a best of the worst sort of decision.
You can only help people so much before you either let them destroy themselves or take you down with them. The people who are rising up to take power today are not a small group. They represent a large group of Sunni people that want power that they believe is being stripped by the Shi'a majority. Not all Sunni's believe in Sharia Law, but will accept such in order to become the 'king of the hill'. Also, this new group straddles both Syria and Iraq and is by no means an Iraq-only problem. It is a middle-east problem.
I mean no offense, but this situation, while perhaps influenced by US policies, was certainly not created by them. It was always a damned-if-do/don't situation.
Well, imo Iraq had always been FUBAR. America comes in and just stirs around the FUBAR cocktail, then leaves. Go patriotism.
I edited my post after your reply, but ISIS, the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria is a regional issue not limited to Iraq.
I blame George W Bush for ratifying the Balfour Declaration. I mean that idiot drew lines that put the Sunni and the Shiites in the same country.
The fundamental religious discord predates it by millenia unfortunately. I don't believe honestly that any blame can be tossed around so flippantly without looking very agenda-driven. This issue, if studied properly has more angles than grains of sand in Iraq.
In my opinion it cannot be viewed or judged so minimally.
Unfortunately, that area of earth has been in the middle of imperial discord for thousands of years. At the end of the age of empires, the Roastbeefs and Frogs (with a little input from the Doughboys) drew the modern borders through the middle east not based on cultural reasons, but to carve up the land to their benefit. Oh, and they displaced one peoples to insert another. I say let them figure out their own borders, we just shoot anything that leaves the arena.
I think Bush invaded Iraq for a lot of reasons, not all of which were bad. Did you know that Saddam had a botched assassination attempt on Bush Sr.? Oh and did you know Saddam killed tens of thousands of his own innocent citizens?
So he starts a war because Saddam tried to hurt his daddy? *slow clap*
He didn't have a choice. There was a deadline and the Iraqi leadership held the US to it, but we didn't have to be there in the first place. That's Bush's fault.
His dad was President of the U.S. I guess people forget about that. Do you think the U.S. would sit back and do nothing if someone tried to kill President Obama?
Well, we just need to outlaw guns so that could never happen
Some people just don't realize that when someone states that an entire country is their sworn enemy and they go as far as making an assassination attempt on their leader, they aren't going to just stop. They are going to keep trying until they either eventually succeed or they are removed from power. If Bush hadn't done what he did, and Saddam was still in power, not only would both Bush's still be in danger, but the current and all future Presidents would still be in danger until something was done. It is what it is. Things aren't just so cut and dry.
I agree to some extent, but the US stepping in under false pretenses because Bush et al believed false things is like tossing in the match but blaming it on the gasoline that wasn't yet lit. It's possible the situation might have evolved out of the mess without the match.
So what Saddam tried to assassinate Daddy? As for the 10K deaths, how many thousands do you think died when the US invaded and bombed the place?
"Tens of thousands" He used nerve gas on village after village of people and buried them in mass graves in the desert.
I am not American. I have lived my life from Greece to America back and forth. So consider me one of those foreigners who thinks sometimes America does dumb things. Okay a lot. I think the war in Iraq was based on many many lies.
Bush was not very forthright about his decision. Remember the no nuclear weapons, when you found out there were no nukes in some countries. Lies. Stupid stupid lies.
You have to understand that it wasn't all lies, but partly bad intelligence. The U.S. had an Iraqi scientist that had defected to the U.S. and told them secrets that turned out to be either untrue, or covered up by the time the U.S. invaded Iraq.
Separate names with a comma.