Is gender too overused?

Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by disasterspark, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    To be fair that didn't really happen to me with blood tide - but that would probably be because the incels were the bad guys
    Dusty feeds Cypher to a shark at the end

    Incels as good guys will take some subtle touch to pull off ... unless you go the antihero route
     
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  2. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    There was a Swedish film I saw once and have never been able to find since where two men wake up from Cryofreeze (I think, I missed the start) in an underground society that is all women, with an empress in charge. There are no more men and reproduction is done through the magic of science. At first they are treated like curiosities, but soon they have a target on their heads when the Empress orders their execution and try to escape. They make their way to the surface only to discover the apocalyptic wasteland they saw through a periscope is nothing but a painted backdrop. They find a nice beach and lush forest, in which is a trailer park where the Empress is revealed to be a man in drag.

    It's a comedy. And really couldn't be anything else.
     
  3. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    This kind of story is handled very well in The Hunt.
     
  4. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    This is sage advice. I've struggled with my main WOP because it doesn't just touch, but dives deeply into topics that are repugnant, distressing and offensive. But I find it necessary in order to tell the story and explore its deeper themes. It isn't effective watered down. I won't go into details, they're not relevant, but if you have something to say or explore, sometimes the work can't be censored. If it creates controversy that's often as much a reflection of the reader as the writer. As long as the words don't come from a place of frustration or hate.

    And gender isn't too overused. It's pretty much the zeitgeist at the moment. Gender identity, politics and equality. Which has been rare in civilization. It's very now.
     
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  5. disasterspark

    disasterspark Active Member

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    Okay perhaps incel was a poor choice of words. Maybe lonely hermit with weird, yet extreme beliefs about women based on the false rape accusation that ruined his life, and combined with a feminist police force that oppresses men (including himself). All he does when he gets home is drink alchahol and watch TV. But even the TV can't keep him distracted from the fact that his life was forever ruined and will never be the same. And the only thing that he could feel was himself dying. Every night when he's in that lonely apartment he thinks about shooting himself in the head just to end it all, because the only thing he could feel now was rage, depression, and pain. He does things to slowly kill himself just to feel something
     
  6. O.M. Hillside

    O.M. Hillside Senior Member

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    Yeah to be real, it could make for a good story as long as it makes sense
    The word you want is: "doomer". Look it up and enjoy the memes. And I think a story about a doomer could be interested. But I would include an examination of more than just feminism. There are a lot of things wrong with our society other than feminism. Imo, it's more like a symptom of the overall problem.
     
  7. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Do you have a premise for where the police force came from?

    (I’m fairly sure that you’re using a very nonstandard definition of ‘feminist’. You may want to find a different word for that too.)
     
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  8. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    You may wanna make it a rape charge rather than mere accusation. I struggle to believe the accusation could "ruin his life forever". Ok if he's from a small town and everyone knows him - first of all not everyone would believe he did it in the first place, regardless of whether he did it - but second of all, erm, just move? Move to a big city where you're more anonymous. If it was only an accusation and not a charge, then it wouldn't be on his files and no employer would ever find out unless he volunteered the information.

    Something like this will have a greater impact on his career if he's in a field where he works with vulnerable people. Healthcare, schools, prisons, homes etc.

    I dunno. Even convicted child molesters have managed to get jobs in schools. It's not that hard to fake documents and move somewhere where you're unheard of, even within the same country.

    If you have to stretch a premise just to make it make sense, perhaps your premise is not that sound.
     
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  9. Sark1986

    Sark1986 Active Member

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    As a rule gender tropes annoy me. However, it is not always avoidable and can be an important part of the story even if like me you do not feel strongly one way or another on the issues.

    In one of my projects, for example, the social dynamics that form, do so for a reason based on what individuals can contribute to a small group with minimal recourses. There simply isn't time, resources or the luxury of caring about gender equality or anything like that. These things just happen as a consequence of need. The guys in the group often end up doing the heavy lifting of supplies while a girlfriend holds the gun and keeps watch.

    It's not an active attempt to make a gender statement, it's just the reality of the situation. The world has gone to shit, the two guys can move heavy shit quicker and easier, while the girl is pretty handy with a rifle. Different strengths mean individuals contribute in different ways. This does not mean that conforming to gender roles would be a thing in such a situation in all cases, but that might be how some female characters "pull their weight" in a small group. Someone needs to do the washing, and most of the men are in the yard all day fortifying a house from attack, and they come inside to find two or three girls sitting on a couch eating Cheetos I'd be pretty pissed off too. Of course, some of the girls will be in the yard with the guys, but not all, and not all guys are going to be out there either. Social dynamics form out of necessity and practicality in such cases, and gender does to some extent inform that necessity and practicality.

    Anyway, that is how I approach gender as much as possible. Can sexism exist in these stories? Absolutely - every group has an asshole or two. It adds texture and complexity to social dynamics. Groups of people, once they expand beyond the immediate family, are rarely homogenous and cooperation and mutual understanding become a necessity.
     
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