Is it advisable to create an east Indian detective

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by RightWrite, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. Fallow

    Fallow Banned

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    You haven't said when this takes place. The only reason I would get rid of the Indian is if you are going to put him in a time and place where no one would even talk to him. Unless you want the sidekick to act as a proxy all the time.
     
  2. BBQPorkbelly

    BBQPorkbelly Banned

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    If you are writing about an East Indian detective for the sake of attracting attention in the West, then no. It is not okay. It's basically saying, "Hey, look at me! You should read this book because it is about an East Indian detective!" You are essentially using someone's race as a marketing tool.

    First of all, you must think to yourself: why is this East Indian detective even in this story? Does this detective have to be East Indian? If the East Indianness has nothing to do with the plot, then what's the fucking point? Trying to lure Western readers to read your book so that you can cash in on the East Indian experience?

    Please... don't.

    Instead of choosing a real race, choose a fictional one. This detective is of a fictional race. He is a witch and practices witchcraft. The book may be about him trying to solve the mysteries of the magic world.
     
  3. RightWrite

    RightWrite Active Member

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    The setting is the modern day U.S.

    Actually, I'm not using an Indian detective for the sake of attracting attention in the West or as a marketing ploy. I just think it will depict a very unique personality for the Western reader. It will be an enjoyable read in this context. :)
     
  4. jim onion

    jim onion New Member

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    I agree and disagree with Pork.^

    Don't make race a marketing tool. Agreed.

    I personally believe that the detective can also be any race, since RightWrite said the story takes place in contemporary America. There doesn't *have* to be a reason for the race. It can be purely incidental and inconsequential.
     
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  5. Fallow

    Fallow Banned

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    So you're concerned your detective might seem weird because he is the same race as the many US doctors, professors, computer scientists and entrepreneurs people here meet every day?
     
  6. RightWrite

    RightWrite Active Member

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    I'm going to incorporate interesting Indian philosophical traits etc. to my detective's personality too. :)

    No. I don't think he would seem weird in that context. I don't know if your statement is one of support though, but I personally don't think it's weird to have many Indian professionals in this country. :)
     
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  7. Fallow

    Fallow Banned

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    Of course it is one of support. I'm saying that Americans are more likely to associate an Indian with an accent with higher education and professionalism.
     
  8. BBQPorkbelly

    BBQPorkbelly Banned

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    Exactly. The OP thinks that creating an Indian detective means having an unique story, because the main character is Indian. Just being Indian makes that person "unique".

    The assumption that non-Western cultures are cool to the Western reader suggests that the author just wants to use the non-Western culture or non-White person to attract attention. The person may not directly say so, but the person's actions indicate otherwise. It is assuming that the non-White person is interesting, cool, or unique - rather than the default race. Basing your story in a Japanese setting and market that story to a Western audience also portray Japanese culture as cool, interesting, or unique - but not the default culture.

    Take it from me, a Chinese-American. From my POV as a Chinese-American, I see myself as the default. I don't see myself as unique. If I want to write a memoir about my experience as a Chinese-American, then I would do so because it is from my experience, not because I think my life is unique from a Westerner's POV.
     
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  9. RightWrite

    RightWrite Active Member

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    Ah ok. I understand.
     
  10. BBQPorkbelly

    BBQPorkbelly Banned

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    Model minority stereotype.
     
  11. RightWrite

    RightWrite Active Member

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    BBQPorkBelly, I'll take your insights into consideration. Thanks :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
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  12. Fallow

    Fallow Banned

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    Actually, I think we see detectives as people who are from our own country and have backgrounds in law enforcement or intelligence. A foreign Indian man seems like an unusual person for job.

    I don't think it is racial exotica, either. It is culturally interesting, much like Poirot.
     
  13. Fallow

    Fallow Banned

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    Whether it is a stereotype, as is the convenience store thing, is beside the point I'm making is about how the character functions within the world of the story. That world has its stereotypes that will influence how the other characters will react to him and sets the interactions the author will use to make the stories interesting.

    It isn't about the reader's belief in the accuracy of stereotypes, but their awareness that they exist.
     
  14. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    This suggests that a writer needs a really good iron-clad excuse for having a character who’s anything but white Western.

    I don’t agree.
     
  15. Alan Aspie

    Alan Aspie Banned Contributor

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    I did not say that he is reinventing Sherloc Holmes but that he is reinventing Sherlock Holmes NYC. In NYC Watson becomes => is a partner, a colleague and a friend.

    Sorry... I forgot that the English name is Elementary. My bad. Sorry.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_(TV_series)
     
  16. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    But Elementary obviously plagiarizes from Sherlock Holmes. And, really, don't most of the Sherlock Holmes adaptations make Watson a friend? Elementary, Sherlock, the Laurie King novels, all of them? How would this be somehow worse?
     
  17. XRD_author

    XRD_author Banned

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    Related note:
    in the US at least, both Holmes and Watson, as well as most of the A.C Doyle stories about them, are in the public domain. Anyone who wants to can write and sell stories featuring Holmes and or Watson (not just characters named that, or looking like them, but those actual characters) without permission from anyone, and can bring in as much from the public domain stories about them as they like. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherlock_Holmes

    So if someone wanted to tell us what really happened in A Study in Scarlet, from Irene Adler's perspective, they can. And such a book is probably already out there.
     
  18. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    How many novels have been written with Caucasian protagonists where their Caucasian-ness has nothing to do with the plot, so why were they white?

    Personally, given the whole thing England was doing in India during Sherlock's time, I think it could be a very interesting connection.
     
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  19. LoaDyron

    LoaDyron Contributor Contributor

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    Hey friend! :superhello:

    Why hesitate so much? Go ahead! Write your story, however, keep in mind at the same time that you will need to give context to the readers.

    You mentioned on your post about Hercule Poirot. As a fan of the character, let me tell you people love him not because about the western thing. But because about his personality and how he approaches the cases. So I will advise you to write a character with an exciting personality. Maybe your Indian detective have a peculiuar taste for psychology? Even an obsession? Or perhaps he likes to deal more with psychopaths? Does he value results than understanding the psyche? Will he notice a peculiar detail on the crime scenes that for others is irrelevant? Just analyse your character with your research and let him shine.

    I hope this helps. Keep on good adventure and work. But remember to have fun. :supersmile:
     
  20. RightWrite

    RightWrite Active Member

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    Yes, I forgot about this. Thanks for pointing this out. So I wouldn't be plagiarizing the way I had my original character sketches since Holmes is in public domain. Nevertheless, I would still like to give my detective unique characteristics that overtly differentiates him from Holmes but at the same time maybe incorporate elements of the original canon that compliments my detective's abilities and personality. And my original idea wasn't inspired by the Holmes canon, rather it was just a product of my personal interests, scientific background, beliefs and cultural profile. So it's quite incidental that it resembles Holmes/Watson.

    I entirely agree with this.

    Well, to be clear, I'm not making my detective Indian just for the sake of making him Indian. In reality, I want to create an Indian detective that would use a unique approach to the art of detection by combing scientific principles along with Indian philosophies and possibly ancient Indian principles.

    You're awesome! Thanks. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
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  21. LoaDyron

    LoaDyron Contributor Contributor

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    No problem. I am here to help as much as I can. But don't stay only with Hercule Poirot. I will suggest watching the anime Death Note. Focus on L character. He is a detective, but... strange, peculiar however interesting. He is my favourite character. :supergrin:
     
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  22. RightWrite

    RightWrite Active Member

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    Cool, I'll check him out. :)
     
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  23. BBQPorkbelly

    BBQPorkbelly Banned

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    If you only speak English, then you will interpret everything through an English speaker's lens. That includes "Indian philosophies" and "ancient Indian principles".

    The website is wrong on so many levels.
    1. There is no such thing as the "Qing Dan diet". In some parts of China, that is the regional flavor, and it is what the people prefer to eat. It is not a "diet" in the Western sense or in the sense of what people should eat.
    2. In Chinese medicine, people may recommend food to be prepared in this type of manner: 清淡. Some foods are believed to be 热性 or 冷性 or whatever and thus avoided or eaten, because the body will 上火 or 灭火.
    3. "Qing Dan" (likely referring to 清淡) does not mean "pure and bland" diet. Stop reducing this character (清) to "pure, purity, pureness". It can also mean "clear", simply because the soup looks clear and transparent. The word "bland" also has a negative connotation. You can describe it as "tasteless", but "tasteless" also has a negative connotation. Flavor-wise, the food is bland and tasteless, but the negative connotation of "bland" and "tasteless" doesn't exist in 清淡.
    4. Chinese characters such as 清淡 can be pronounced in many ways, based on region. Western European languages are based on alphabets, so the people will emphasize on correct pronunciation. The Chinese language is based on logograms or glyphs. These are readable, depending on the region. The meaning is relatively constant throughout the Sinosphere, which explains why native Chinese speakers can actually read the Japanese Kanji and get the gist of the entire article. So, the written language has primacy over the spoken language. Romanized Chinese would be so annoying to read. What does Shi4 refer to? You'd have to read the entire paragraph to know. If you just write 试, see how easy that is? Also, most people don't speak Putonghua natively. It is merely taught in schools. By writing in Chinese characters, people are actually allowed a lot of wiggle room. The correct written word will be emphasized over the pronunciation. In English, the word meaning is based on exact pronunciation. In Chinese, the spoken word meaning is based on context, and when the context is not clear, you need the text. Therefore, "Qing Dan" is really just the Pinyin romanization of the Chinese word, without tonal diacritics.
    "Indian philosophies" and "ancient Indian principles" are related to how a person thinks, and how a person thinks is related to language. You have to know a language in order to understand the mindset. There are many ethnic groups in India and thus a different language. Do you speak an Indian language as a mother tongue or C2-level second language? If not, then using so-called "Indian philosophies" and "ancient Indian principles" on your character would make your character feel not so Indian after all.

    What I am trying to say is this. Race is not something defined by explicitly saying so. Explicitly saying that someone is Indian or Chinese or White doesn't make that person Indian, Chinese, or White. If I were you, then I would just remove all explicit references to race, and let the reader judge for himself. If the reader thinks that the character is White, because it feels like a White character who has a weird obsession with Indian culture or maybe a person who is White on the inside by Indian on the outside, then the reader would think that character is White, not Indian. Language and culture determine who a person really is, not the appearance of a person. A person may look "Indian" but thinks and acts like a typical White person - White on the inside, Indian on the outside.
     
  24. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    You can always find parallels to other works of fiction in any piece of writing.

    It means nothing!

    There are many resources on this site regarding plagiarism, which every writer should understand. Ideas are not copyrighted, and cannot be plagiarized. Only the explicit expression of an idea falls under international copyright laws, and that applies to all of the creative arts.

    It's never a good idea to deliberately lift material from another writer, but every work is a unique effort. Every attempt should bring the author's views and values to the table, but failure to do so is a shortfall of imagination, not plagiarism. So taking a basic premise from other works and re-exploring it is hardly plagiarism.

    Please read up on copyright law, and it's a good idea to learn the fundamentals of trademark law as well. But be very careful about throwing the word plagiarism around!

    Which brings us to another legal topic, defamation and its variants libel and slander...
     
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  25. Fallow

    Fallow Banned

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    I really don't think you have the right to take away the ethnicity or nationality of a person based on whatever criteria you set up. A man born in India, especially of Indian ethnicity, is Indian, regardless of his attitudes or chosen language.

    "Indian" isn't even a race, and making this sound racial isn't making for a better discussion.
     

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