1. WritingInTheDark

    WritingInTheDark Active Member

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    Is it correct to have the 3rd person limited narrator call the father of the POV character "Dad"?

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by WritingInTheDark, Aug 8, 2022.

    I'm writing a scene and something about the dialogue feels weird to me. The story isn't written in first person, but in third person limited, with the POV changing occasionally, always between chapters. Right now it's from the perspective of a teenage girl, with her father as a significant character in the scene, and I've been having the narrator call him "Dad" like she does. As in:

    "We need to get out of here," said Dad.

    I have this nagging feeling that this is incorrect. Am I right, or is this totally normal?
     
  2. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    An important factor would be how close or deep the POV is. In a deep 3rd it's almost like 1st, and the character's thoughts and feelings are shared nearly directly by the narrator. In that case it seems more do-able.

    I have a story where I did this too. The scene is a little girl traveling with her mom and dad on a fairly long trip. At first I was writing 'her mom' and 'her dad', but after a while it felt natural to switch to just mom and dad. This was a distant third though, so I kept thinking it doesn't quite work. I haven't studied deeply enough into POV yet to have a solid answer though.

    It's like the current thread where we're discussing terms of endearment like darlin' or dear. And the consensus is if it's their nickname, then you capitalize it. The same applies here (and I notice you're capitalizing Mom and Dad). To a child those are practically their parents' actual names. It would feel really weird to call them by their first names. It's a bit of a stumper.

    Plus you would capitalize Grandma and Grandpa, right? Those are their 'family' names. Even their own children now call them Grandma and Grandpa. So I think you can treat those kind of family names as nicknames, which I also think means the narrator can use them. I would assume even a distant narrator. Someone who knows this territory better might pop in with a more definitive answer.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
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  3. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    As with @Xoic, I’ve done this before as well. I don’t see anything that could be considered ‘wrong’ about it. From the POV character’s perspective, that character is “Dad.” It’s being used as a proper noun, so capitalization is appropriate.
     
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  4. Earp

    Earp Contributor Contributor

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    I think it might depend on to and from whom the POV is changing. If a character is Dad from one POV, and Earl in the other, it might confuse me.
     
  5. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    Relax. You are correct and doing it right. :)
     
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  6. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    It can be handled to not be confusing. In my own story, when they got to Grandma's house, Grandma calls Mom Verna. But the family relationships are well established and I think the characters all have well differentiated personalities. Plus Mom/Verna is quite the attention-hog and drama queen, so whatever she's being called it's always very clear who she is.
     
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  7. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Agree that it would be confusing here. I’ve read books where a character maybe have half a dozen names depending on context and who is talking, and in some cases they did get a bit confusing (e.g. the Malazan books).
     
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  8. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I think it's pretty clear. You tell me:

    “Wait, you mean that lady was real last night?” Rachel prompted. “I thought I dreamed that!”​

    “Oh, she was real all right!” Mom nodded vigorously, taking a chair beside Grandma’s. Rachel clambered up next to her dad on one of the couches.

    “Well Verna, it sounds like you had an encounter with Wild Annie!” Grandma said with a grin.

    “Oooh, Wild Annie!? Ok, give with the gossip! I wanna hear all about her!” Mom smirked evilly and rubbed her hands together in anticipation.
    So, it's a conversation between Grandma and Mom, with nobody but family members in the house. Mom is called Mom at the beginning and end of the exchange, and Verna once by her own mom (Grandma). It would make even more sense if I showed more context, but I don't want to load the page down with my own writing.
     
  9. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    @Xoic apologies—I meant to say it would not be confusing as used. I shouldn’t post on my phone without my glasses, it seems :D
     
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  10. Gary Wed

    Gary Wed Active Member

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    I agree with those who say it's probably very acceptable if the view is close. At that point the presence becomes almost 1st person. i also agree with the comment from Earp, regarding if you are working multi-limited, this shifting from view to view can have an overall distancing effect, depending upon how much time you spend in the presence of the current view. Capitalizing Dad means it is the father of the narrator, which is what close limited view does. Otherwise you might not capitalize it, and still show some distance with the narrator from the view, which I'm not a fan of, but it's doable.

    This gets to a lot of issues relative to viewpoint. For example, I'd not have viewpoint Joe coming to Mary's house. I'd have him going to Mary's house. Every piece of language ought to push to view, this being no exception.

    Let me finish by saying that if you truly care about closeness in limited view, Dad isn't a choice. It's required, which is the opposite from a mistake or an option.
     
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  11. trevorD

    trevorD Senior Member

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    ...," his dad said.
     
  12. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    POV has nothing to do with it. If the narrator refers to their father as Dad it will always be Dad. Same with Uncle Charlie, their friend Noodles, the dog Spot. Whatever. Sure Dad might be Phil to somebody else, but that's true for everyone who isn't Phil's kid.

    What you don't want to have is a character known alternately as Phil, Mr. Brown, Shakes, Senior Studmuffin, the Guy in Red Hat, or a bunch of other nicknames between POVs. That's just annoying.
     
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  13. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    I must admit it sounded off to me, too, when I read it. The problem, however, would be the possible confusion and detachment for the reader if you used his name, resulting in a possible exchange such as this:

    “C’mon, Dad,” Lucy urged. “We gotta get moving!

    Tom threw her a glare. “I’m moving as fast as I can!” he snapped.

    I dunno.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
  14. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    That more of a POV break, in my mind, than something that would confuse a reader.

    I wouldn’t say not to use multiple names for a character if an author feels it is warranted. You see it a lot in Russian novels, for example. The Malazan novels are a more contemporary example where a single character may have a multiplicity of names. My recommendation is only that the author think this sort of thing through and proceed deliberately rather than sort of stumble into it.
     
  15. Gary Wed

    Gary Wed Active Member

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    Make up your mind. You just said two different things.
    And, I could show you a thousand examples of using Dad or Mom or any of a number of similar things, in the narrative, not 1st person, to such effect that any rational reader would not advise any other approach. To be in view means.... Well, if you are not talking narrator, you are not in view, and this extends all the way to omniscience, which is a view.

    When they turned left, Pawa kept the compact in place, but the car didn’t follow. Then, just before she put the tiny mirror down, it did. If she mentioned it, nothing good would come of the conversation.

    A dozen vans were parked along the street. Dad pulled around a fender that half blocked the driveway.

    “Miss Stevens! How does it feel to have been awarded the Presidential Award?”


    or

    It was a blessing that Helen could sleep through all that. Pawa made it a point to tiptoe past her door, to and from the bathroom.

    The workmen had been forced to walk two blocks because the street was blocked by news vans. The good part of that was Mom and Dad couldn’t drive over and pick her up. She’d told them that she was looking after Helen, which had apparently counted enough to keep them from coming over and braving a hundred camera shots.


    or

    “The true church! May you burn forever, demon!” He spit on her ear.

    It felt like he was telling the truth, but there had to be more. Maybe her father already knew all this, but getting information out of Dad was difficult, and maybe Aayaash didn’t know everything. Who knows when he’d disappear for another seventeen years? So, she asked the man, “I’ll let you go, but tell me what Ted Driver has to do with this!”


    or

    “Is this a pep talk?” Powaqa asked. She didn’t bother to ask how the gods managed to find time to watch NCAA basketball. It was almost more surprising to hear him use the word indigenous. Apparently, Daddy had been around to more places than she had, judging from that tip of the iceberg. Instead of staying home and fooling with the likes of me.

    Honestly, people, this is normal. This is what it means to be in view. The view invades the narration. Otherwise forget closeness and just go right ahead and embrace the embarrassing writer's voice.
    And, just in terms of thought, you have the big three: Indirect thought, Direct thought, Internal Monologue. How do we get there? What does that mean?
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
  16. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    It will always be Dad from the narrator's perspective, regardless of the narrators POV style, I meant.... first, second, third, omni, etc.
     
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